Ulster Rugby trial -continued

[ZibbidooZibbidooZibbidoo]

New thread.

[Quimby]

“I think when you read it in context of Harrison’s reply then it is pretty clear they don’t mean drunk.”

I think it’s clear as day that that’s exactly what he means

[ZibbidooZibbidooZibbidoo]

Could be. Doubt we’ll find out.

[mikado1]

So true Zibbidoo 're McIlroy, not the brightest bulb!!

[mikado1]

Seeing as he did the same thing the following night (or night before?) it doesn't sound rare..

[ZibbidooZibbidooZibbidoo]

it was McIlroy bragging about “pumping” a girl two nights in a row. Not Olding.

Also I got the timeline of messages wrong. Some asked that question “any [ ] get fucked” Olding replies “precious secrets” and other guy says about it being his lucky night. So that was all before any mentions of threesomes or Spitroasting.

[mikado1]

Oh yes of course, thanks, baffling though it is.

[ZibbidooZibbidooZibbidoo]

Top braggers

[buckeejit]

Wish they'd get taken to civil court as it seems more likely justice is done there. Reading the messages in order like that is so so telling.

[Twixes]

it was McIlroy bragging about “pumping” a girl two nights in a row. Not Olding.
Yes I spotted that inconsistency too.

And it also mentioned towards the end that Olding (Stu) is in with another girl.

Was it McIlroy who said he had oral sex with her in his statement and people's theory was that he got his story wrong and accidentally gave Oldings. Seems the other way around??

[Badgerthebodger]

I’m just catching up with this again and I cannot actually believe these horrible fuckers were found not guilty. Those messages turned my stomach, what a disgusting group. Brave girl for trying to get them convicted.

It’s so interesting to find out more about this rugby means all attitude from a lot of schools and communities. It reminds me of American football, where the star quarterback of a particular college can do no wrong. The fact that we’ve had another top shagger swimmer accused just makes me think what a toxic environment sports can create for women. Where do these supposed sporting heroes get this attitude from? It’s happening everywhere - football, rugby, swimming; just a general culture of revolting attitudes to women at best and rape at worst.

I’m very interested in how we can challenge a culture of toxic masculinity that so subserviates (sp?) women to the point they are viewed as something to be passed around. I’ve got a lovely little one year old boy, and we live somewhere with a couple of great grammar schools, and I was thinking of encouraging him into rugby because I like watching it a lot more than football. I don’t want to encourage him into any sport which has this culture.

Whilst I acknowledge it is not women’s responsibility to change this culture, I am interested in how it starts, how it grows and how it can be stopped. Thank you to the poster who offered such good insight into the socioeconomic circumstances in NI as I can see clearly why rugby is such a big deal there. Why the other sports though? Why other countries, and communities? I would be interested to find out if there was a common denominator.

[ZibbidooZibbidooZibbidoo]

And it also mentioned towards the end that Olding (Stu) is in with another girl.

Yes I assumed that was the woman who shared the Sofa in the den with him.

[BelfastConnection]

I went to Belfast Royal Academy, a school similar to Methody - girls/boys , protestant/catholic, with rugby being regarded as the sport of the elite. This was many (!) years before dinosaurkisses and at that time although there was the odd unimpressive male in terms of behaviour to girls, most, including most of the rugby team were fun and respectful. I am still friends with some. I think the culture has changed a lot.

[Maryz]

Fucked is absolutely plastered in Ireland too. Drugs would be more likely to be "wasted" - though even that could mean drink. I'm certainly not defending them, but I'm not convinced by the drugs suggestions. I think it's more likely the deleted messages are even-further-beyond-the-pale misogyny.

I'm also not convinced that the suppressed evidence is other allegations. They will be in more than one WhatsApp group; maybe the other one contains worse messages from the point of view of their attitude, but doesn't specifically mention their activities on that particular night; hence disallowed.

Their problem, though, is that if reporting is restricted, that gives the public the opportunity to imagine the worst possible scenario. They might be better taking a deep breath, letting it all out, and hoping that it will eventually blow over. Otherwise they risk it coming out later.

I would be suggesting they get legal advice, but Jackson's legal advice doesn't seem so hot at the moment

[DianaBlythe]

I was thinking similar to you Maryz. With them being so high profile I’m not sure it’s so likely to be other allegations/convictions.

I found the WhatsApp transcripts a little confusing with what was to JACOME, what was between individuals and whether there were more groups. Do we know what JACOME is and who was in it? One article seemed to suggest Rory Harrison wasn’t in JACOME.

[Maryz]

JACOME is a group of six - Jackson, Olding, McIlroy, and three other rugby players. The initials being their surnames. CG in the transcripts is Craig Gilroy, so there is at least one other Whatsapp group with extra people.

I can only go by my son, who may well be the equivalent of the Methody players in a school "down south" but who seems to have escaped the adoration and thankfully appears to be (possibly thanks to very vocal dd) aware of how appallingly some men treat women. He is in multiple WhatsApp groups. While I don't believe he is a saint, I'm hopeful that, judging by his reaction to this case, that the JACOME messages aren't the norm.

I know NAMALT is irritating, but seriously, not all rugby players are like this. I've mentioned this before; dd has come across the Leinster players many times out on the town in Dublin. She is full of praise for them; they have all treated her and her friends and all the girls she knows with respect. Yes, they are all a bit starstruck when they meet them, but I've never heard any negatives at all.

Not all rugby players, rugby schools, rugby clubs are like this. Generalising that it's "rugby culture" is letting them off the hook. No it's not. It's not ok to behave like this. The vast majority of rugby players don't think as these guys do (though I accept twitter is a tad depressing ).

We shouldn't in any way excuse them by saying "this is how rugby players behave". It isn't, and they shouldn't.

[Chaosandchocolate]

Generalising that it's "rugby culture" is letting them off the hook. No it's not. It's not ok to behave like this.

I don't think anyone considering the culture of the schools or clubs is saying that it's ok. Nor that it is every player. Absolutely it's not ok. Yes there is individual responsibility. That doesn't change because there might also be a wider problem. It would be a mistake not to recognise the cultural element to it. I don't see at all how that is letting them off the hook. To not acknowledge the bigger picture could mean other young people, other woman, could continue to be hurt by that culture.
So I hope that Methody and any other school, the rugby clubs etc look at what's happening and what they can learn from it.

[sashh]

This is depressing, this is the judge's instructions to the jury


www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/judge-tells-rugby-rape-trial-jury-only-a-unanimous-verdict-will-be-acceptable-36750613.html

[NotTakenUsername]

CG in the transcripts is Craig Gilroy, so there is at least one other Whatsapp group with extra people.

I thought Craig Gilroy sent his message privately to Stuart Olding? He was quite explicit in his Twitter apology that it was a private message.

[NotTakenUsername]

Well done to everyone who joined in on the crowd funding for this...
amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/advert-published-calling-on-ireland-and-ulster-to-ditch-duo-36779249.html

[Twixes]

Reddit thread from a year ago that's quite interesting:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/6phw02/ulsteranddirelandrugbysspaddyjacksonnandstu/?utmmsource=amp&utmmedium=commentt_list