Matthew d'Ancona in the Guardian - 3rd spaces as the solution

[rowdywoman1]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/01/transgender-equality-women-only-carriages-caledonian-sleeper

This seems to me to be a thoughtful and reasonable article. Apart from his irritating use of 'cis' he talks about the need "to build toilets that accommodate trans visitors without making cis women feel uncomfortable." and that in rape crisis centres, trans women seeking work will have to accept that their aspirations are trumped by the rights of the horribly violated. Sorry, but there it is"

It was good to read an article which genuinely tries to navigate a way forward and move the conversation on. And slightly unbelievable to see a second constructive article in the paper that has acquired such a reputation for dismissing women as transphobes and bigots. I wonder whether he'll get the same reaction that Hadley Freeman did?

That was an Alan Partridge style rant if ever I heard one. “Lynn, you couldn’t present a cat”.

and no-one has directly challenged her about what sex she is.

Bollox, I'm challenged about three times a fucking day by posters who need to get personal becasue they ar unable to back up their positions.

That was an Alan Partridge style rant if ever I heard one. “Lynn, you couldn’t present a cat”.

It was supposed to be Monty Python.

Well, I'm not a fan of your world view, StillScreaming, but for what it's worth I assumed you to be a woman (by my definition). That doesn't stop you being a misogynist, however, and you've made some breathtakingly misogynist posts on this thread.

I've just spent a lovely half hour watching Philomena Cunk getting everything arse about face. I thought of you!

But you do spend a lot of time in odd circular arguments where you cherry-pick the things you’ll respond to and misunderstand or obfuscate to derail. It’s weird, when you’re on our side about self ID being a Not Good Idea.

I go around in odd circular arguments becasue I'm dismissing the same thoughtless and baseless prejudice disguised as argument time after time. Constantly fighting off boring personal insults from people who can't muster an actual logical argument.

And you people claim to be interested in debate?

Well yeah. Why would I want to go and AS your posts when you're here on the thread and we could have an actual conversation instead?

Google is your friend.
www.google.com/search?q=women%27s+pattern+recognition+skills&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1

You caught me, I trusted you again and you gave me a fucking Google search list. Typing something into google doesn't make it true.

Constantly fighting off boring personal insults from people who can't muster an actual logical argument.

Not from me, I don’t think. I’ve never personally insulted you, as far as I know - happy to apologise if so if you’d like to link - and I’ve given you plenty logical arguments, but you generally pick a piece of them and try to take it out of context, it seems to me. Again, happy to be proved wrong...

Pencils, you can't do debate. You can't do discussion. You do foaming and personal insults.

SS Really - Pencils does “foaming and personal insults? Link?

How is it possible that you did not get that I was telling you to look it up yourself when I said straight up that google is your friend? Criminy!

Still throwing it 🐟🐟🐟🐟🐟🐠🐠🐠🐠🐠🐠?

I reported your ad hominum logical fallacy, SS.
Just so you know I always advise when I report, so it seems I am not the only one who objects to your verbal abuse.

No, you're one of the posters who is happy to sit by and watch others doing the personal insults, mis gendering and name calling. You're the enabler who looks the other way.

Just because you post on the same thread does not mean you are responsible for what others post or that you are giving tacit agreement or 'enabling' what they say.

Why won't you engage with the substance of any of the discussions/questions?

The reason it's important is because you wrote 'I don't want third spaces'.

It's hard to work out whether you don't want them because you are male and don't want to use third spaces yourself, or because you are female and ... I dunno

Why don't you, as a woman, want third spaces? What if transsexual TW decided as a group that actually third spaces were the way to go? Would that negatively affect you?

Just because you post on the same thread does not mean you are responsible for what others post or that you are giving tacit agreement or 'enabling' what they say.

I've been engaging all day and now I'm calling you out on your enabling behaviour.

No, you're one of the trans people who is happy to sit by and watch others doing the personal insults, mis gendering by calling us cis and name calling feminists who disagree 'terfs''. You're the enabler who looks the other way.

Would you accept the same argument if I had presented as above. No you wouldn't and you know it, you'd be jumping up and down to accuse a poster who posted what you did, just in a different context, of extreme transphobia.

Just to be totally clear, I'm only responsible for what I post here, just as you are responsible for what you post. Accusations of enabling are ridiculous.

I see that you don't take too well to facts or owning your shit.
This from you is pure delight!

Why don't you, as a woman, want third spaces? What if transsexual TW decided as a group that actually third spaces were the way to go? Would that negatively affect you?

If transsexual women decided, collectively, that they wanted a third space, that would be none of my business. When a tiny group of exclusionists decide to push trans women out of the space we share, that's my business.

To see any minority group oppressed has a negative effect on all of us.

If there is to be a third space, at the insistence of a small group of exclusionists, they should be the ones who get to use it. There is no need for it, there has been no research to show that sharing space with trans women is dangerous in the countries that do have self id, so this is a comfort issue not a safety one.

No, you're one of the trans people who is happy to sit by and watch others doing the personal insults, mis gendering by calling us cis and name calling feminists who disagree 'terfs''. You're the enabler who looks the other way.

I don't sit by and allow the term 'TERF' to be used around me, I also pick people up on cis, although it's not offensive to everyone.

I'm pretty hot on all kinds of bullying. I don't like to be a bystander, it makes one complicit.

So anyway I thought this article was hilariously timed, coming straight after Hadley Freeman's article asking the lefty dude-bros to back the fuck off.

Lefty dude-bro wades straight in and suggests something utterly naive Who hasn't, when entering this debate for the first time, thought, 'hey I know, we could just have third spaces!'

It's still a positive article and miles away from where the guardian was at a year or so ago. The tide is turning.

There is no need for it, there has been no research to show that sharing space with trans women is dangerous in the countries that do have self id

What research has been done?