To any trans activists reading this forum

[yetanothertranswoman]

Fuck off fucking life up for those trans people trying to live our lives.

I heard about some of the stuff people like you got up to but I've had my eyes opened today. Seriously opened.

Stop talking about lady penises.
Stop saying you are a woman.
Stop demanding women be quiet when they raise concerns about what's happening.
Stop harassing woman online
Stop intimidating women trying to speak about their concerns.
Stop initimidating women trying to do a clothes swap.
Stop demanding access to female spaces and just saying "It will be ok"
Stop taking women's spaces as women's officers when you haven't got a fucking clue about life as a woman.

All you are fucking doing is making life more difficult for the rest of us and scaring the shit out of women.

Yes - trans people exist. Some of us have gender dysphoria which is bloody hard to live with. Some people just seem to think that putting on a skirt is enough to make you 'a woman'.

Are you capable of thinking about women and their concerns? All I've seen online is people saying it will be ok.

No - trans people are not the enemy. But there are some trans people and trans activists who scare the shit out of me with their demands and their behaviour.

I've tried to keep my head low and keep out of all this. But no more.

You don't speak for me and you don't speak for many trans people out there.

yet I am so sorry.

One of my big fears is that the behaviour of some of the TRAs is going to cause a huge backlash against trans people and I'm really sorry for it.

A lot of GC feminists are working closely with trans people who just want to get on with life sans all the drama and I hope that we can get it all sorted. You take good care.

Good for you!

Apology accepted

I do feel that us so-called TERFS need to make it clearer to those calling us bigots that we are not against trans women with gender dysphoria (which must be awful) but we are opposed to the trans activists who are no more than cross-dressers and who confuse wearing make-up with being a woman.

@yetanothertranswoman

I'd like to add my support to your post.

In an effort to understand and find solutions, there is a sort of weird evolution to this issue for many women.

One can wax and wane over the detail. Like whether there is a sliding scale of credibility, a sort of 'grading' of authenticity of transwomen. From the determination to always misgender someone, on the basis that it's simply wrong to buy into any part of the ideology, to the pre-op/postop basis for credibility. And of course, the difference between AGP and GID.

All compounded by the determination to resist one's socialisation to be 'nice', as it becomes increasingly counter-productive. Which can conflict with one's natural humanity.

And then of course, there's the give an inch, take a mile, aspect that women understand only too well.

But, and I can only speak for myself, there comes a point, (and that point is now), where the sheer hatred and misogyny for women, by people who are no more trans than I am, takes the issue to a different level entirely.

Although you, and transactivists both have the name transwomen, you couldn't be further apart.

Gender dysphoria might well, on some profound level, be a condition that is either based on, or certainly exacerbated by, the gender stereotyping that feminists have tried to dismantle. And on that level it can be hard to give any quarter.

Which accounts for the uneasiness of the allyship that has now arisen.

But. Being on different sides of the question of gender reinforcement, seems, at least to me, something that is now utterly eclipsed by the chasm that has arisen over the 'TRA and women' divide.

Gender dysphoria, as a concept, doesn't help women. It doesn't help feminism. It does the opposite.

And, of course, I understand you have no agency. You don't choose it. Like women we often have to adhere to a system, navigate it, accommodate it, whilst disagreeing with it. We can't all be heroes.

You, and many other transwomen, are, beyond doubt, being used to further a deeply misogynistic agenda. I can only imagine the frustration you feel when you say not in my name.

Men managing gender dysphoria is a dot in the distance politically. This war on women transcends it.

The only way to stop this onslaught is to prove to our politicians that they are not accommodating transpeople. And the only way that can happen is with posts like yours.

So I appreciate your OP.

It's not just necessary, it's vital.

@ferntwist "I hope these maniacs don’t succeed in making life as difficult for women and non-aggressive trans people as they seem to be attempting to. I wonder what their real agenda is? They are setting women and trans rights back a long time."

It seems to me, more and more, that the aggressive "TRAs" are nothing at all of the sort, and that they're just the usual misogynists, MRAs, men who hate women, same as always. Hijacking the trans cause for their own ends is just another tactic for them and they really don't give a shit so long as they can hurt women.

"I do feel that us so-called TERFS need to make it clearer to those calling us bigots that we are not against trans women with gender dysphoria (which must be awful) but we are opposed to the trans activists who are no more than cross-dressers and who confuse wearing make-up with being a woman."

Those calling us bigots aren't interested in hearing that, though - sadly. They just want to smear us all with the "transphobic" label as it serves their purpose very well. From what I can gather, most of us with concerns are very, very un-phobic (if that's even a word) and very, very "vive la difference". I hope that the majority of trans people understand that - I am not "anti-trans" in any way. But pics of men with baseball bats and slogans like "Die, CIS scum" scare me (as they are supposed to).

Thank you yatw we need many more genuine trans people speaking up to balance the vitriol of trans-misogynists and I am grateful to you for doing so. As some other posters have said these misogynists in dresses threaten not only women's rights but also those of lesbians, gays and genuine trans people.

It's interesting that on the Facebook page, about the clothes swap, where the main antagonists were aggressively responding to Venice et al, when I posted a 'we don't hate hate you, we just want to talk' post, they went silent. I guess that doesn't fit their narrative.

It's frustrating. I guess, naively, I just hope those posters will hear something other than their own hatred.

It makes me very sad.

Thank you OP!
Im so tired. For the 2nd Sunday in a row I've debated/argued/been outnumbered on FB trying to get our point across. They are middle class trans allies that have drunk the koolaid and I feel drained and alone. There's only here and twitter that I hear any sense. It's fucking scary.

Thank you so much OP. Lily Madigan, Shon Faye, Paris Lees, Juno Dawson, India Willoughby and all the other loud entitled transactivists silencing women have so much to learn from people like you.

Thank you OP

And if you're an equalities person in the Green party or Labour, then blocking trans people who disagree with your opinions is a really stupid move.

I love it when the performatively woke are all "We must listen to trans people! Not those trans people, obviously. Just the ones who want women to STFU."

Well done, OP.

What I find astonishing is that none of the posters who pop up on EVERY trans related thread to call ‘transphobia!’ are here, like they would be of this thread was started by a non-trans person. Time after time, they rush to shut up women and smear them as bigots, yet not one of them is willing to engage with an actual trans person and their concerns when those concerns align with the feminist position. When a trans person contributes to the threads, it’s like they’re invisible to the people who label themselves as defenders and supporters of trans people. Interesting that ‘allies’ can’t bring themselves to talk to a trans person, but are so quick to call others transphobic...

I've never seen any of our usual "you're all mean meanies who just don't understand how valid trans people are" commenters ever bother interacting with Curry or Pigeon either, or Miranda when he's around. It's almost as if it's the having an excuse to tell off other women that they're interested in rather than supporting or trying to understand people who're what we used to call transsexual.

Also slightly ot but I think there's a certain sort of person who's drawn to blatant narcissism and feeding it. A form of codependency, maybe. Someone who's transsexual and just quietly getting on with their life wouldn't offer the appropriate level of whatever it is that they're getting out of those interactions.

but I think there's a certain sort of person who's drawn to blatant narcissism and feeding it. A form of codependency, maybe

that's really interesting. I've been trying to work out what's in it for the Human Shields to the Sparkle Army. There's some kind of damage or self destruction in there for sure. There's something about the old tropes of damaged women and girls turning harm on themselves, and damaged boys and men turning it on others, too, but I haven't quite got to articulating that yet. None of it's good though. I feel compassion for these people even as they're calling me a hateful old bigot. They're expressing some sort of pain, even if it's not the one they say they are...

And to the OP, it's important that we have some trans voices here on this debate. It's a feminist board, so women's voices ought to prevail, but standing in allyship to feminists is always welcome in my book.

They definitely don't come across as happy well-balanced people, the ones for whom "fighting transphobia" seems to be their major focus. Children of narcissists themselves, maybe, or of alcoholics - there has to be a reason for the compulsion to put themselves last and to prove that they're willing to do so.

Bravo!

just and truscum