Row over women-only sleeping berths on trains; Men V Mumsnet!

[SuitedandBooted]

Would anyone like to try and put some comments on this story - I don't seem to be allowed!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5565999/Row-female-compartments-transgender-people-pits-Churchills-grandson-against-Mumsnet.html

You said I said that people were going to be threatening women. I did not say that.

15 / 16 much difference? Not really, to my mind.

I also think that referring to trans people as just " trans or would be trans " sounds rude, like talking about "gays".

I also think that these situations will inform / assist with similar services elsewhere / even outside the UK.

So if we say OK to this, then what of other single sex / stranger overnight type stuff?

Either it's OK or it isn't, type thing.

So if it's OK for this

Why not for guides, hosps, group trips (my FIL goes on trips and shares with same sex, it makes it cheaper, he wouldn't want to share with a woman!), prisons etc and so on

Either it is reasonable for women to want and to have same sex for certain things, or it isn't.

I must admit I thought that you were on board with the idea of women having same sex sometimes. Or is it just the illogic that you don't like - that they say same sex on site when they mean same "gender"? In which case I understand that too.

@TheDukesOfHazzard Don't you understand that men don't actually need to do anything illegal - or even deliberate - to make women feel uncomfortable?

I am a sturdy, middle aged woman. Certainly able to hold my ground, but I was on a busy train and felt, then saw, a man just staring at me. Stared and stared and stared, to the extent I felt very uncomfortable and remembered it a couple of years on now. What could I have said that he couldn't have just instantly denied and made me look like a complete nutjob?

And that was just with a look, on a train full of people in broad daylight. I can only imagine the misery of what this could turn into.

Just wanted to point out the the budget option to share with a stranger may be ending in October for Caledonian Sleeper, but the ferries running from Aberdeen to Shetland by Northlink (also owned by Serco) will continue to operate with this policy too.

As do all overnight ferries to Europe by P&O.

Possibly also the sleeper train from London to Penzance.

That's an awful lot of travel options being curtailed for solo female passengers.

I also think that referring to trans people as just " trans or would be trans " sounds rude, like talking about "gays".

And no one on FWR is ever rude about trans people. You are correct I should have said trans people or would be trans people. It was posted in a hurry. I still think this thread , in relation to the specific topic of the Caledonian sleeper is making a mountain out of a molehill.

What about the ones Betsy mentions?

What about group holidays and all the rest of it?

If the principle is agreed, then it applies to many different services.

Yes. And AirBNB etc.

AirBNB came up already didn't it? There was something.

I think they have a gender identity inclusive policy.

Which is great for women who don't want strange men in the house, clearly.

Ah yes google tells me that a woman in USA was booted after saying she wouldn't have a TW guest.

Funny isn't it

With things like women's cab firms

First men said they should be shut down because they were "sexist"
Now men have to be able to use them / drive them if they say they are women

Interesting indeed.

Fundamentally a lot of men don't like women having stuff for themselves Some react by trying to shut it down, some react by wanting "in".

Fundamentally a lot of men don't like women having stuff for themselves Some react by trying to shut it down, some react by wanting "in".

Exactly right and in the comments on any article about female spaces the MRAs saying women shouldn't have them are as numerous as the TRAs to be honest. It's exhausting also having to battle men who don't themselves believe in gender ideology.

Why not for guides, hosps, group trips (my FIL goes on trips and shares with same sex, it makes it cheaper, he wouldn't want to share with a woman!), prisons etc and so on

Transgender girls (ie boys) are apparently to be allowed to join Girl Guides, and sleep and change in girls' facilities.