It's a real cis-privilege to...

[MrsWooster]

Have had periods for 35years.
Have a reduced pension because of two maternity leaves and part time work.
Have suffered crippling post natal depression, still affecting my life when dc is 5.
Have T2 diabetes as a result of gestational diabetes.
Have all the joyous symptoms of menopause and face osteoporosis and other diseases according to how and if I treat the symptoms.
Have a constant awareness, sometimes fear, of men and potential violence when I go out.
Have an awareness of being the object of the gaze. All. The. Time.

I posted a humorous (?) meme on fb about the bastardliness of menopause and suddenly calculated the ways in which female biology has not been a privilege in my life. Of course, as a woman, I have to conciliate and see the other side of the argument so yes, I have the privilege of carrying my children and the tattered fanjo and incontinence that have resulted.

In what way are trans identified males women? Can you answer that without using sexist stereotypes please and thank you.

@thebewilderness trans women are women - that is a notion widely accepted by scientists - would you enjoy being told that your identity is invalid because someone feels differently on the issue of gender than you?

@EphraimLevi i don't get gender honestly like most of you I believe it's based of very sexist stereotypes but sex is something completely different. Transgender people are widely accepted by scientists and dysphoria is a very real thing.

"a notion widely accepted by scientists" - is it? Is it really? Which scientists?

I don't have an identity. Someone could describe me as a man if they like, I wouldn't be upset, and it isn't true.

That's exactly what I'm saying katsu

Those who have had surgery to remove their male sexual organs are transwomen. That is different to being a woman.

Those with a penis who grow their hair and wear makeup, who 10 or 20 years ago would have been happy to be called transvestites, are trans identifying males. Or men.

would you enjoy being told that your identity is invalid because someone feels differently on the issue of gender than you?
That is exactly what you are doing when you use the term for an isomer to describe the female half of the human race.
It is not possible to change sex. That is a fact. Xs and Ys are all that is on offer. There are zero scientists who claim that humans can change sex.
Stop calling women names and please do not @ me again.

That is exactly what you are doing when you use the term for an isomer to describe the female half of the human race.

This. This. This.

It is not "widely accepted by scientists" that trans identified male people are women at all. It is an ideological worldview founded in post structuralist queer theory and politics. There is conflicting evidence that there is any such thing as a gendered brain, let alone that a male can actually have a "female" one. There is the psychological condition gender dysphoria. There have been some minor similarities in brain structure found between trans identified males and women, but they could potentially be artifacts of hormone usage and neuroplasticity as all the brain studies have been on adults.

@AssassinatedBeauty @Ereshkigal @thebewilderness www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/01/how-science-helps-us-understand-gender-identity/ read this article if you want - once you scroll past the initial pictures of trans kids it talks about the science of it

@Ereshkigal actually when the child is developing there is a gene called the sry gene which is essentially part of the Y chromosome (so normally only present in boys (xy)) but that gene can often be defective which leads to an xy embryo not developing male anatomy and being identified as female at birth and the opposite can happen with xx embryos as occasionally the gene is present in the X chromosome. And actually there is a lot of proof that shows the difference between male and female brains and in studies done with pre hormone trans people their brains have been shown to look more like the gender they identify as rather than the one they were assigned at birth @AssassinatedBeauty @thebewilderness

Katsu, that article actually debunks the ‘science’ you are talking about. Did you read it?

It says that the studies on brains were flawed and too small to count, talks about intersex conditions and then about how gay men in some cultures become a ’third gender’. And also highlights the correlation between trans and autism.

It doesn’t back up your assertions about TW being women. At all.

What you are talking about is intersex conditions. Which are nothing to do with transgender.

That's intersex. It's not the same thing as gender dysphoria. It is a physical condition, a disorder of sex development and there is no solid evidence that gender dysphoria is anything other than a psychological one. Also as far as I am aware the similarities only appear to exist with homosexual trans identified males, when sexual orientation has been controlled for. Heterosexual males don't show this similarity to women. Plus you can't rule out plasticity. Our brains adapt.

Also even if a transgender person has elements similar to the structure of an opposite sex brain, it just means that they are an outlier. Not the opposite sex. It's an ideological belief system. And one many people don't share.

katsumoto8, I have reported the post where you @ me again despite my asking you three times to stop.
Perhaps you are ignorant of the fact that the bold @ added to the name sends an email message to the persons inbox. PLEASE STOP!

@katsumoto8 I'm afraid I don;t understand this statement:
I just want to say that trans people have dysphoria and so calling yourself cis isn't the same as calling yourself non-anorexic

After all - what is anorexia if not giant, honking body dysphoria? And we don't get categorised according to not having that condition - so why do we get categorised according to not having sex dysphoria? It makes no sense, when sex dysphoria is viewed objectively (but compassionately) as just another mental disorder that a person might suffer from.

Perhaps you meant to say that not all trans people suffer from body dysphoria? I agree - but in my book that is even less reason to give everybody else a descriptor which takes their lack of the condition into account.

I just think than cis and trans are to different almost between the types of women?
If trans women want to label themselves as trans women, rather than TIMs, then that is fine. But that doesn't mean that the other 'kind of women' need a new label. And putting that label on them against their will is an act of aggression.
It also makes a mockery of the language. After all, if there are now two categories of women 'trans' and 'cis'- and 'woman' as a term is no longer enough by itself - then 'trans women' makes no sense as a term, either. If 'woman' isn't a discrete category, a defined thing - then what exactly are they transitioning to? For 'cis' to work at all, trans women would have to be called 'trans -cis' women, as that is what they want to be. And that is just ridiculous.

It's like using the terms gay and straight
But gay and straight are labels to describe something that you are. Cis is a label to describe what we're not i.e not trans. Plenty of women, myself included, have posted here that we don't identify as cis - and in the world of identity politics, how you identify is literally all that matters. I don't need a word that explains to the world that I don't want to take testosterone, grow a beard and construct a simulacrum of a penis out of my arm skin. My biological descriptor is enough for me - and clear and understandable to everyone else.
But I will not be called Cis gender as I do not identify with the sex role and stereotypes that were assigned to me at birth, and have been forced upon me throughout my life.
Like I said - cissexual makes sense, but is pointless.
cisgender is offensive because gender is the prison which keeps us oppressed - and I don't identify with being trapped in a cage of societies making. And I will not have men, who want to climb into that cage, tell me that I am privileged for having been born in there!

That article pretty much discredits everything you’ve said. It’s also the National Geographic.

You are also conflating intersex conditions with trans issues. They are irrelevant to each other and I believe many intersex people are offended and speak out about this muddling of their issues with trans activism.

Does anyone else think it's a bit odd for people to argue whether 'cis women' have privilege over trans women? It seems like an odd comparison to me if one accepts that people cannot really change sex.

I think in the case of transwomen it is easy to see that if they had been men who identified with society's rigid stereotypical gender roles then they would have an easier life in all sorts of ways.

But to compare meaningfully compare a transwoman's experience to that of a woman just feels impossible and fruitless. They are too different - it's apples and oranges. The comparison should really be with people of the same sex who are not trans, not those who are both A) not trans and B) the opposite sex.

PS. Apologies for the 'cis' - I find it an offensive term too. I'm just using it because that is how it is framed.

It does seem odd, Speedy, until you realize it is part of the forced teaming that has been going on for years. The effort to convince the public that transgender identified males are a subset of females rather than males.

Cis privilege is a new stick with which to beat women.

I'll just leave this here.

And then saying that land horses are privileged because they get to be used in dog food.

‘Cis women should realise that needing an abortion is a privilege they have over trans women’
What a horrible, horrible statement to make, only a man could have come out with something as unempathetic as this.
Trans women are trans women, and anyone agreeing that they’re women, are quite frankly, utterly deluded.

A large part of why this idea flourishes and women's feelings about it are completely dismissed is because of terms like "trans woman" which imply that they actually are a subset of women (as opposed to "cis" women) and woman means something other than female. And that it's awful to deny someone their right to live as their authentic self. As a woman. With other women at all times even when they object to the presence of a male person. It's insidious.