Kiri Tunks

[GenderApostate]

Kiri has been voted in as President of the NUT, she is openly gender critical and a supporter of A Womans Place UK. I think this shows that teachers are not as in thrall to the TRAs as said groups think.

If only we had someone in the Government Education department who was so sensible and protective of the rights of Women and Children.
Small victories will get us there in the end.

Sawyer:
"But if gender is not defined by genitals then it IS transphobic for a lesbian to not want to date a trans woman just because of her genitals. They’re basically saying they’re not a woman"

If that's the case, what consequences should there be for that transphobic lesbian do you think?

I’m 19... but I don’t see what that has to do with this?

Thank you. I was trying to assess your level of vulnerability, which I appreciate appears patronising - but I can be short, blunt and brusque and would rather not if the person I'm conversing with has vulnerabilities or even may have vulnerabilities.

Sawyer, I assert your right to any internal identity you choose and whatever presentation you choose. I wish you a fulfilled life.

But I'm not going to pretend material reality does not exist. You have a sex, which is immutable. You also have a sexuality, which is heterosexual. These things are true regardless of your internal identity or outward presentation.

Absolutely, SpringTrolls - I missed those out as what came to mind was female development, not surprisingly, and I hope the boys would be able to discuss those issue with a male mentor.

Not that that would make it much less excruciatingly embarrassing than the all-girls sessions with our elderly probably 40ish biology teacher.

You might like to read this
threadreaderapp.com/thread/980548632213516288.html

I can't help consider consent in this discussion.

The tea analogy.

People have the right to change their minds. That is not phobic.

Sadly, I couldn't cope with the way a prospective partner kissed and my attraction diminished immediately.

True love transcends all this, physical things etc. Sexual attraction is entirely individual and subjective, even involving senses of smell etc, (research says a potential mates' smell can can link to their health or a good mix of genes in their gametes that will work well with yours to reproduce healthy offspring) as it is extremely biological and driven by our selfish genes' desire to reproduce.

We are one of the few species to practice sexual activity without the aim to reproduce, but it's still based in those biological roots.

sawyer I can't believe how your school acted towards you, utterly disgusting. I am sure you will make an excellent teacher as you will have developed empathy skills others won't have. You will learn a lot about safeguarding however, and how careful teachers have to be in both what they 'promote' and how they handle anything sensitive, especially in relation to bodies and sex.

I agree with many others, how you were treated at school sawyer was dreadful

No one said a lesbian HAS to be sexually attracted to a trans woman.

I have. I’m bisexual mind but I’ve been told it have to include tran people (specifically transwomen) in my circles of attraction or I am transphobic.

So for instance if no one knew I was trans and they assumed I was bio Male and they were attracted to me for a number of reasons, then when I revealed my trans status they said oh I don’t like that or oh I’m not attracted to you anymore, that is transphobic. Because up until 2 seconds ago they were attracted to me, now they’re saying my genitals mean I am not a man. That is transphobic.

I’ve been going out with going people and fancied them and almost had sex with them and then decided I didn’t want to for any number of reasons. Political views, they stood up and they were shorter than I tend to go for, they support a football team I don’t like, I don’t like their shoes, their fingers are too short and thick, they grew a beard.
Why can you have preferences over these types of things but not over genitalia? It’s rape culture and conversion therapy all rolled into one. It’s homophobic.

I think your school treated you terribly and would back you the hilt in taking legal action against them on the grounds that they should have allowed to at least use staff facilities.

sawyer in your example, if they do know you are trans and are not attracted to you because they know you are not a man, is that transphobic? If not, why not?

this is a very sad discussion.

Is a heterosexual man who is attracted to a transman transphobic (because they are not recognising the transman's preferred gender presentation) or subconsciously gay (because they are reading the transman as a man)?

I'm heterosexual and, personality and winning smiles aside, part of my attraction to men is an attraction to male genitalia. I don't speak for all hetero women, but this is just how it is and always has been for me. A nice penis feels good during sex - I guess that's part of it? Whilst I am attracted to people who dress confidently, I do not care whether a man I'm attracted to wears trousers or a dress. Does it make me transphobic that I would not have sex with a trans man on account of their genitalia? But I could find a trans woman attractive if they had a penis and no fake breasts... What does that make me?!

@changeypants according to something I saw on Twitter earlier it makes you an Andro-Skoliosexual Woman, I think.

So Sawyer, as a trainee Teacher do you think it would be appropriate for you to supervise Teenaged Boys showering and changing after a swimming lesson for example? Do you think it would be appropriate for a Male who is ‘legally’ Female to supervise naked Teenage Girls in the same situation?

Neither should it stop trans people using a bathroom that matches their identity

What, self IDed 'trans people'? So anyone who simply says 'I am a woman'? So basically...any bloke?

Yeah, all these silly hysterical women, being afraid of fictional and rare male violence eh?

Should male rapists who subsequently identify as women be moved to a woman's jail?

I'd lost this thread, and I'm so glad I came back. It got really interesting.

Sawyer, if you are still there, I'm really sorry about the poor treatment you have had from various places, and the abuse you've suffered.

There are jerks on all sides of this debate, and we can't stop that from letting us discuss all the ramifications of being inclusive. You are passionate, and have the potential to be a great teacher by the sound of it. Do be careful though, that your ideology doesn't infringe on the rights of vulnerable students. You might find over time, that it becomes really hard to meet everyone's needs individually.

Please be aware that the vast majority of gender critical feminists are not transphobic, they do not wish you or any other trans person anything but the best. They just want to be able to discuss safeguarding of children and adults.

according to something I saw on Twitter earlier it makes you an Andro-Skoliosexual Woman, I think.

I saw this term on Tumblr and assumed it meant attraction to people with scoliosis, but of course being Tumblr it couldn't possibly be that straighforward. Can't remember what it was meant to mean though. "Sapiosexual" wins the smug prize for the implication that everyone other than the person describing themselves thus is attracted to stupid people.

for Sawyer. This thread made me feel very sad.

I wish you success in your career.