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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Kiri Tunks

169 replies

GenderApostate · 31/03/2018 10:11

Kiri has been voted in as President of the NUT, she is openly gender critical and a supporter of A Womans Place UK. I think this shows that teachers are not as in thrall to the TRAs as said groups think.

If only we had someone in the Government Education department who was so sensible and protective of the rights of Women and Children.
Small victories will get us there in the end.

OP posts:
Sawyer99 · 04/04/2018 16:46

It was shit when I had numerous kidney infections

titchy · 04/04/2018 16:46

How are you legally male - you can't have a GRC yet?

Sawyer99 · 04/04/2018 16:47

I’ll tell you now, you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between a trans penis and a cis penis

seekingsun · 04/04/2018 16:47

So what you are saying is that the belief that male genitals mean that person is a man is 'transphobic'?

To me the belief that male genitals mean that person is a man is biological reality.

Holding that belief doesn't mean I treat transpeople differently, or that I don't like them.

How do you define a man?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 04/04/2018 16:48

You can get a GRC from age 28

Sawyer99 · 04/04/2018 16:48

Exactly. How do you define a man? A man is someone who says he is a man

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 04/04/2018 16:48

Age 18

LadyGrey18 · 04/04/2018 16:49

Ok first of all I struggle to see how being transgender is homophobic. I’m gay. So by your understanding I’m homophobic towards myself and others? No. I’m understanding, I’m accepting. I get that everyone needs their spaces but you absolutely CANNOT dent a trans person theirs. I haven’t had surgery, I use Male toilets because I am a man.

So you're a biological female who hasn't had any surgery and is attracted to men but you identify as a gay man?

Sawyer99 · 04/04/2018 16:49

From 28??? You’re mad haha

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 04/04/2018 16:49

Exactly. How do you define a man? A man is someone who says he is a man

Don't be ridiculous.

I'm say I'm an aardvark - does that make me one?

beenandgoneandbackagain · 04/04/2018 16:49

I’ll tell you now, you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between a trans penis and a cis penis

Seriously??? Yes I could. I'm fairly certain most grown women could too.

Sawyer99 · 04/04/2018 16:50

Just seen it’s a typo. Yes 18, I’m 19. My records say Male. I am legally a Male. Yes I identify as a gay man. Because I am a man attracted to men

flowersonthepiano · 04/04/2018 16:51

@Sawyer99 - your age is relevant because as I'm a lot older than you, and you have disclosed that you were repeatedly abused as a child, I don't want to debate as robustly with you as I might do with someone older who didn't appear so vulnerable.

What I want to ask you is if you accept that there is a difference between sex and gender and that both are important and should inform how we behave towards one another?

MonsterSister · 04/04/2018 16:51

That is truly appalling, and I can't see how your school could justify it.

(Agree with the above that sex IS largely about having fun with your preferred kind of genitals, though, and 'no vaginas please' would be a perfectly fair stipulation! What on earth makes you think that's transphobic? I mean, in some ideal virtual world where everyone was a disembodied floating soul, it might be, but we consist of real parts and have preferences accordingly.)

Sawyer99 · 04/04/2018 16:52

Let me ask you, have you ever seen a trans penis? I assure you, you wouldn’t tell the difference. I have a friend who has NEVER been outed by his penis because no one can tell

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 04/04/2018 16:53

I’ll tell you now, you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between a trans penis and a cis penis

I hate to destroy your dreams, but that really really isn't true. A penis doesn't require some sort of inflation device to require erection for a start.

If you are thinking about going down that route I strongly suggest you do some research on the possible complications, and realistically the outcomes you are likely to achieve.

beenandgoneandbackagain · 04/04/2018 16:55

Having to inflate it is a bit of a give away.

rowdywoman1 · 04/04/2018 16:55

Sawyer99
If you're training to be a teacher then here's the most recent DfE guidance for schools about sexual harassment. It states that sexual harassment can happen between both sexes. It is also clear that girls are predominantly on the receiving end of sexual harassment by boys.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/sexual-violence-and-sexual-harassment-between-children-in-schools-and-colleges

If you stop people identifying the sexes by our biology, that which renders women and girls vulnerable to rape and sexual harassment, then you stop us being able to do anything about it. The problem becomes invisible as women and girls are invisible.

If you want to work with children and young people then you have a duty of care which transcends your personal or political views. Children have a right to consent and to establish their own boundaries and no one should be undermining that - for any reason.

MonsterSister · 04/04/2018 16:56

Oh christ, missed your latest update too. You're younger than my son, have been repeatedly abused and are thoroughly muddled by the whole current identity/gender/sexuality thing, which very, very few adults actually believe makes any sense.

I'm kind of hoping you aren't real, to be honest, as I don't know how you'd begin to untangle all that.

Sawyer99 · 04/04/2018 16:57

I do believe that both sex and gender are as important as one another. But if someone says they are Male we should respect that and treat them accordingly. If I ask people to call me a man, use my legally changed name, use Male pronouns, I expect people to respect that. As I would to them. Sex is also important in a medical environment. Without going too much into my personal history. I got discharged repeatedly from a women’s clinic because I “shouldn’t care about it” because I’m a man. Ok let me get cervical cancer, let me remain struggling with fertility but that’s on their back and I will fight. Both are just as important see? But there is respect needed there

MonsterSister · 04/04/2018 16:58

Clues to transpenis would be: shape, function, scarring, action, ability to inseminate.

I'll grant you that not all of these might be obvious at first, but in a long-term relationship?

Sawyer99 · 04/04/2018 16:59

Also there are numerous types of bottom surgery, not just this “inflate” you keep talking about. Maybe I’m not the one who has to do research??

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 04/04/2018 17:01

But if someone says they are Male we should respect that and treat them accordingly. If I ask people to call me a man, use my legally changed name, use Male pronouns, I expect people to respect that.

I got discharged repeatedly from a women’s clinic because I “shouldn’t care about it” because I’m a man

Sounds like they were respecting your choice to be treated as male. However, I think you were treated badly and absolutely you need to be getting your smear tests etc. You are female and are entitled to, and should absolutely be getting the healthcare required by females.

Sawyer99 · 04/04/2018 17:01

The shape is the same, the function is the same, the scarring is covered by pubic hair, the action is the same, the ability to inseminate is the only difference, however many men are infertile too so...

flowersonthepiano · 04/04/2018 17:01

But there is respect needed there

Absolutely, I respect your choice to change your pronouns and your gender. I don't accept that you can change your biological sex - which is important to women in medical contexts, and many other contexts, which is what we're going on about. We're just asking for reciprocal respect for our concerns.