Kiri Tunks

[GenderApostate]

Kiri has been voted in as President of the NUT, she is openly gender critical and a supporter of A Womans Place UK. I think this shows that teachers are not as in thrall to the TRAs as said groups think.

If only we had someone in the Government Education department who was so sensible and protective of the rights of Women and Children.
Small victories will get us there in the end.

I suspect sawyer is just another TRA plopper. So many of them lately, you would think they were following instructions. They really hate that there’s a tiny corner online that they can’t control and silence .

I personally know Kiri and am very active in our union. We have spoken on this and I know her views. I have a niece going through the transition process and it is so difficult. She is being bullied and is not in school. The advice given is very London centric and not very helpful to her in her area where anything different from straight white middle class is seen as bad.

I feel and Kiri agrees that trans people deserve rights that cannot be abused or tarnished by the actions of others. They deserve rights that are not demonised by taking away the rights of others. That is why discussion needs to happen to ensure this.

A search on Sawyer99's username turns up no results. Hmmm.

Typical seagull post: fly in, squawk, fly out again.

So Kiri is behind woman’s place uk? Which means that she is against tw because woman’s place is against tw?
Do I have this right and that’s why Sawyer and others are against kiri?
Because if this is right then I am truly confused. What I have read is that she/the group don’t want to fuck over a group of people rights in favour of another groups. And surely if she didn’t care about Tw then at the recent woman’s place meet, then there wouldn’t have been any invited tw. And there surely wouldn’t be any tw guest speakers.

Or am I muddled with someone else?

SpringTrolls
Sorry for the length but these are the 5 demands from a Woman's Place - I can't see any transphobia unless expecting consultation with women is now considered hate speech?

1. Respectful and evidence based discussion about the impact of the proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act to be allowed to take place and for women’s voices to be heard;
2. The principle of women only spaces to be upheld – and where necessary extended.
3. A review of how the exemptions in the Equality Act which allow for single sex services or requirements that only a woman can apply for a job (such as in a domestic violence refuge) are being applied in practice;
4. Government to consult with women’s organisations on how self-declaration would impact on women only services and spaces;
5. Government to consult on how self-declaration will impact upon data gathering – such as crime, employment, pay, and health statistics – and monitoring of sex-based discrimination such as the gender pay gap.

That’s why I was confused and thought maybe there was something I missed. But it’s all common sense stuff. No transphobia. Nothing to be feared.
Just then someone pops up here wanting her gone. And twitter is awash with calls for her to be sacked or whatever. And you think eh? And you ask on twitter and you get sucked into an echo chamber.

First Rule of Transideology: Anything that isn't boot-lickingly fawningly handmaiden pro transideology is transphobic and bigoted.

A Woman's Place does not place trans issues at the centre of its policies, therefore it is transphobic.

Don't worry Sawyer. It'll all make sense once you've done a bit more Safeguarding training. Then you'll understand why these people - who have so much more experience of teaching than you - are worried by the proposed reforms to the GRA and to a great deal of the TRA agenda.

Although it is April. I would have thought they'd have covered quite a lot of Safeguarding by now...

Maybe it's time to get those notes out again?

If it means that children are free to express themselves however they wish, without it being suggested that there are 'girl things' and 'boy things', and if children have concerns about privacy, dignity and consent we listen to them, then I'm all good.

Quite.

Please can people report this vile smear campaign to get it taken down?

www.change.org/p/national-education-union-national-education-union-ask-your-new-president-to-resign-for-her-transphobia

That petition only has a few signatures and most of them look as if they're young women in their twenties. That says a lot.

To Sawyer who posted on here, please stick around and chat to us. We're really a reasonable bunch and I think your voice is really important in this debate. We aren't transphobic, everyone here wants people like yourself to be safe and live good lives. But there is a discussion to be had around lots of issues surrounding the trans issues. There are other trans people on here, parents, friends and siblings of trans people and all sorts of professionals with lots of expertise

Ok first of all I struggle to see how being transgender is homophobic. I’m gay. So by your understanding I’m homophobic towards myself and others? No. I’m understanding, I’m accepting. I get that everyone needs their spaces but you absolutely CANNOT dent a trans person theirs. I haven’t had surgery, I use Male toilets because I am a man. At school I wasn’t allowed to use any toilets because they needed to “protect other students”. What about my protection? Or do I not count? Kiri runs an anti-transgender hate group, that states that trans women should not be allowed in women’s spaces. But they ARE women. Gender is not defined by genitals. I have never in all my life ever heard about a trans woman sexually assaulting a child or a woman because they are in a woman’s “space”. And if that has happened then they most likely weren’t trans and using it as a cover. That shouldn’t mean we have to suffer just in case. I am aware of Mermaids. I advocate for them at pride events. I am worried that by her being appointed her so called “feminism” will be pushed out. “Women have every right to feel safe” Yes, trans women too. They have every right to feel safe and not ridiculed and degraded. I’m worried that I as a trans person will struggle to find employment or not be supported by union. How likely are they to help and support me when she runs an ANTI-TRANS group? How will learning resources be shifted? Years ago no one used to talk about being gay, now are we going to do the same with being trans? My students will not be seperated as girls and boys, they will know about all social issues including being trans (obviously age sensitive). If people don’t like that, they’re the ones with the issues not me

Sawyer99: "I have never in all my life ever heard about a trans woman sexually assaulting a child or a woman because they are in a woman’s “space”. And if that has happened then they most likely weren’t trans and using it as a cover. "

I can assure you there have been cases of assault by men who identifying as women in women's spaces. Am sure someone else will come along and provide the links.

When you say, "if that has happened then they most likely weren’t trans and using it as a cover", well, that's the crux. If a woman is defined as anyone who says they're a woman, how do you tell the difference between someone who is "genuinely" trans and someone pretending to be trans?

If you were pretending to be trans you most likely aren’t going to keep it up for years and years are you. If you were using it for a cover to assault women you’d notice it would be pretty soon after socially transitioning? If that isn’t obvious enough I don’t know what is? I once knew someone who faked it for attention. 5 months later back they went. It’s hard to keep up a lie, that’s why the truth always comes out

What do you mean by your students won't be separated as boys and girls?
Surely you realise that at times different sexes have to be separated?

I mean that in different tasks, they won’t be seperated as boys and girls. So say a quiz, boys V girls. That won’t happen in my class. No boy, girl seating plans. It’s distressing for trans students or students questioning their gender identity

How would it be obvious if someone transitioned for abuse reasons? Well aside from when the abuse was taking place

Sawyer99: "If you were pretending to be trans you most likely aren’t going to keep it up for years and years are you."

You might. After all, who's to say? If a man, dressed as a man, with no obvious female features, says he's really a woman, then who is going to argue with that? And what's to stop him keeping it up for years? The whole point of gender self-ID is that you can choose what you want to be.

A poster on another thread has linked to the following article, about a male murderer who describes himself as a transwoman and is now in a women's prison. Very cushy, wouldn't you say? Why would you go to a men's jail when you could serve your sentence in a women's one?

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/outrage-transgender-prisoner-living-woman-12022675

If self-id comes in, a person won't actually need to transition though, will they? A man can just say that he is a transwoman and go where he likes, abuse who he likes, and then the next day decide he is a man again. This is the ridiculousness that we are debating.

That doesn't happen in classrooms anyway unless the students decide themselves to have sex based teams.
Seating, never seen tables that aren't mixed. Well until secondary when you sit next to your mate.
Same with school journeys, you pair up with your mate.

Ok let’s say a man transitions socially, 2 weeks later he starts assaulting people. Then he gets caught a couple of months down the line and it’s made harder for him to be in those situations. He’s not going to stick with transitioning because it was never real. He just wanted a cover to be able to get easy access to assaulting women. Maybe it’s harder for you all to understand because of the feelings we as trans people get, wouldn’t be obvious to people who had no experience with it

Sawyer99
The issue is about self ID, not anti - trans.
I appreciate how this must come over as every concern and question about safety is deemed to be transphobic by a very loud group of transactivists.
For someone working in schools, you must be aware that safeguarding is everyone's priority. Insisting to any child that they must undress in front of the opposite sex because a child now identifies as transgender is teaching children that they have no right to have boundaries or give consent.
The solutions are complex - how to make all children feel safe and their wishes respected. I work in schools with predominantly Muslim intakes. There is no question that a boy identifying as a girl would be allowed to share changing rooms, showers or toilets with girls in most of these schools. So we have to work with everyone to find appropriate and sensitive arrangements that respects all groups.
This is what A Woman's Place are asking for - open and respectful debate - not calling anyone raising issues transphobic and silencing discussion.

If you were pretending to be trans you most likely aren’t going to keep it up for years and years are you

why would you need to keep it up for years? Self id means you can pretend for half an hour or so, perve at the 12 year old in the Top Shop changing room, then wander out and continue your normal male life as Dave the plumber.

If you're training to be a teacher, and you come across a teenage girl who has been sexually abused, do you really think it appropriate for her, or any other girl, to share a changing room or accommodation on a school trip with a male pupil? I have no doubt that she would be physically safe in all likelihood, but the effect could be devastating to her MH. Do you really not have any empathy for her? Of course trans pupils shouldn't be discriminated against, no-one says they should be, but neither should girls.

Sawyer99: "Ok let’s say a man transitions socially, 2 weeks later he starts assaulting people. Then he gets caught a couple of months down the line..."

And by then it's too late, isn't it? He's already carried out the assault.

I think perhaps you haven't understood the proposed legislation on self-ID and why so many women, including Kiri Tunks, are worried about it.

I can think of half a dozen boys that I was at school with who would have absolutely self-IDed as female to get into the girls' changing room. Not to assault us, but to laugh, belittle and intimidate us.

Not being assaulted is far too low a bar to set for what is acceptable