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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Shon Fay smearing mumsnet on twitter.

587 replies

SunsetBeetch · 28/03/2018 21:15

I'm blocked by Shon so can't read her tweets, but someone posted this screenshot

Shon Fay smearing mumsnet on twitter.
OP posts:
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21
Tackytriceratops · 31/03/2018 11:59

War in the news room!

SunsetBeetch · 31/03/2018 12:09

Excellent from Hadley. Although I'm surprised The Guardian published it!

OP posts:
AreYouTerfEnough · 31/03/2018 12:15

Someone at the guardian must have been asleep or attending a transmeeting to have let that one through 😮

Good article though.

TheDukesOfHazzard · 31/03/2018 12:27

Amazed to see this in the guardian!

no comments though.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 31/03/2018 12:30

Guardian??? It was banned in casa fekko yesterday. Not ready to reconsider yet though.

Ekphrasis · 31/03/2018 12:37

Followed some links from Hadley piece to this:

www.buzzfeed.com/jacobtobia/how-to-talk-to-your-kids-about-gender-nonconformity

Guy's got style!

TerfsUp · 31/03/2018 12:40

I saw that article on Buzzfeed several days ago and my eyes still haven't stopped rolling. What an ego.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 31/03/2018 12:44

We had a gender discussion yesterday (me and the 'I know more than you about gender issues' 13 year old).

It ended with me saying 'I was a feminist back in the 80s and 90s and we've actually regressed from there'. Thinking about it, I really do believe it. I didn't see this coming.

Flomper · 31/03/2018 12:55

I agree. I went to university in the early 90s and there were lots of straight boys (and gay boys) in makeup. Kurt Kobain was their role model. Nobody gave a fuck. Or actually there was plenty of that! anybody remember the James song "Laid"? "Dressed me up in women's clothes, messed around with gender roles, lined my eyes ans called me pretty" was about a male/female relationship afaik and was our mantra. Fun times.

What the hell changed? Is it that these younger boys were born into all the blue/pink shit, girl/boy lego etc that became so prevalent after our generation? We really have regressed.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 31/03/2018 12:57

Angry, self entitled men (in tights) with loud voices and license to bully.

In another lifw/time they'd have been skin heads, teddy boys or black shirts.

hipsterfun · 31/03/2018 13:01

Guardian??? ... Not ready to reconsider yet though.

I’m going to need the most grovelling of grovelling public apologies before I’ll forgive. Forgetting’s going to be a stretch, tbh.

TheGoldenBough · 31/03/2018 13:15

Is it that these younger boys were born into all the blue/pink shit, girl/boy lego etc that became so prevalent after our generation?

I think so.

And the ELC pink globe...

We all knew that was wrong and complained about that because we didn't want our daughters to think only pink things were for them. I don't think any of us predicted that this would be the conclusion to it!

dorothyparka · 31/03/2018 13:19

It does read in parts like a 'moderated' piece (so I'll continue buying the New Statesman instead of the Guardian) but still a very interesting article, thanks HadleyFlowers
LOJ will be apoplectic - pram empty, toys everywhere ...

Flomper · 31/03/2018 14:59

*Is it that these younger boys were born into all the blue/pink shit, girl/boy lego etc that became so prevalent after our generation?

I think so.

And the ELC pink globe...

We all knew that was wrong and complained about that because we didn't want our daughters to think only pink things were for them. I don't think any of us predicted that this would be the conclusion to it!*

God how depressing. I was on all the ELC Pink Globe abomination threads, not long after I joined MN when my eldest was a baby. You're right. We knew, instictively, it was wrong. We knew children should be free to be who they are, outside a rigid definition of gender roles that said girls needed to have a representation of the fucking world in their bedroooms that was fucking pink with unicorns and mermaids instead of elephants and whales. Now look where we are. Children that happen to conform to the rigid gender norms are fine but everyone else has to identify as something else instead of just being gay or non-gender typical. How sad what the marketing companies have done to a whole generation of people.

AngryAttackKittens · 31/03/2018 17:20

I agree. I went to university in the early 90s and there were lots of straight boys (and gay boys) in makeup. Kurt Kobain was their role model. Nobody gave a fuck. Or actually there was plenty of that! anybody remember the James song "Laid"? "Dressed me up in women's clothes, messed around with gender roles, lined my eyes ans called me pretty" was about a male/female relationship afaik and was our mantra. Fun times.

Yep. It's easy to rationalize as, oh, we miss those days because we were younger then, but I think that it really was a more joyous time to be that age and what teens/twenties are dealing with now in terms of how het relationships are expected to work is pretty shit, comparatively speaking. The compulsive gendering of every single aspect of appearance or behavior has led us to the point where nobody can just be themselves, except the fetishists, who've figured out how to manipulate everyone else into allowing them to act out their fetish in public spaces while pretending that that's social justice. Regular old gender non-conformity gets you concerned questions about your pronouns, because god forbid a woman get a buzzcut or a man paint his nails.

I remember Caitlyn Jenner saying that, that now that he'd transitioned he could finally paint his nails, and I was just going...look, I know that men can paint their nails because I went out with some who did, and was friends with others. I've helped them do it! Their balls didn't shrivel up and fall off as a result, honest.

Vizard · 31/03/2018 17:27

Hello all. I've recently joined MN. It's so refreshing to read coherent arguments and views without hearing "transphobia ", "terfs" and so on. I attended Transgenderism and the War on Women recently, and met women that recommended MN. I've been surprised; I really didn't think it would be so diverse in the topics discussed. I'm really sorry to admit I thought it would just be populated by the "boring mumsies" that I don't particularly get along with, just harking on about their little precious hybrids. I've missed out. Totally. I've been craving company of intelligent, fiesty and humorous women and now I've found them!

DarthArts · 31/03/2018 17:29

Welcome Vizard Grin

Devilishpyjamas · 31/03/2018 17:34

Who is he? Except another tedious self identifying female (yawn).

AngryAttackKittens · 31/03/2018 17:34

I love the fact that Hadley Freeman has had enough of trying to play it safe and has been throwing her hat fully into the ring recently. Always knew she was too intelligent to fall for the gender shit.

Devilishpyjamas · 31/03/2018 17:37

Oh and yes I went out with a lipstick wearing boy during 6th form in late 80’s. He was a bit of a cure Fan. We’re still friends now and he doesn’t wear lipstick anymore. happy days.

DarthArts · 31/03/2018 17:37

@Devilishpyjamas

No that's how SF identities. We think SF is a budgie.

Vizard · 31/03/2018 17:38
Smile
DarthArts · 31/03/2018 17:39

Yep now Hadley's made her declaration I wonder if any other female columnists will?

Sali Hughes maybe?

Devilishpyjamas · 31/03/2018 17:43

A budgie Grin

TheDukesOfHazzard · 31/03/2018 17:44

" I'm really sorry to admit I thought it would just be populated by the "boring mumsies" that I don't particularly get along with, just harking on about their little precious hybrids"

This is a regular theme, when MN is referred to in the media etc

Half the UK population is female, I think it is the case that most women end up having kids. The fact that "mum" conjures up images of boring women with no interest past their children for so many people, highlights just how sexist our society still is.

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