Being wary of men because of your experience of male violence

[GoldenWonderwall]

I’ve namechanged for this as I usually post shite. Anyway...

I’ve been a victim of male sexual violence and violence on so many occasions. From being a little girl to a grown professional woman. Violence from strangers, partners, friends and colleagues. The only thing this lot had in common besides their criminality is that they are all men that I’ve had the misfortune to be in the vicinity of. I’m rarely around men I don’t trust now especially if I feel in any way vulnerable.

If you met me you might you might not believe someone as outwardly privileged and generally quite average as me had been through the experiences I have had. I’d be one of those white middle class feminists who needs to check my privilege.

So when people say namalt and you shouldn’t tar all men with the same brush, you shouldn’t be afraid of men etc which seems to happen so regularly on any discussion regarding male violence, at what point can those people say, oh well actually I can see where you’re coming from? You have a point? Your lived experience has numerous examples of sexual and sex based violence towards you from men and I take that on board? I recognise your experience and I’m not going to dismiss it with a namalt or glibly suggest you get counselling for your issues.

I’m ok that I’m wary of men in general because of my experiences. I’m ok if other women are wary of men too, who would I be to judge.

Does anyone understand what I’m trying to say? I’m sure someone more thoughtful could sum it up in a sentence!

for anyone effected by my post.

I could have written almost this exact post.

I hear you and I understand. I too have experienced sexual violence on a number of separate occasions and inside I get quite riled when people downplay it's existence. The recent Harvey Weinstein stories my dp was tutting disgustedly and horrified and I ended up snapping "Dont be surprised! This is how life is! This is how my life has been!" And it was the closest I've ever come to discussing my experiences. Sorry to ramble.

I hear you and I understand. I've had some bad experiences, I'm not entirely sure how they've shaped me (massive impact on me when younger, not sure now). Clearly our experiences are all different, but I will not NAMALT you.

I completely relate.
I was at a talk last year and a female author was trying to explain it to men. She said women live their life as prey and can't afford not to be wary.

Jessica I made that very point to my dp just this evening. Something on tv about a woman being attacked walking alone. How we are taught from a young age how very unsafe we are.

I hate all the minimising that goes on. No one says you shouldn't be wary of dogs after a dog bite.
PTSD isnt a logical decision, neither is anxiety or fear. It is a survival mechanism. Its to help us avoid the same risk a second time.

Its stupid to say we shouldn't judge all men by the actions of a few, because there is no way to tell which of those men will turn out to be violent. The violent ones mask their behaviour and pretend to be trustworthy until the last minute.

I find some women’s words often do not correspond to their actions. So whilst the use NAMALT and say they are not afraid of men there actions tell a completely other story. All women I know are careful on nights out, only use registered taxis, stick together in groups and last person dropped off phones previous drop off. Many women go to great lengths to stay safe whilst some simultaneously claiming that there is nothing to worry about.

Bauble when she said it, I thought it was the best explanation I'd heard. Then the men still argued with her She was making the point that men can be more forgiving or lenient towards other men's bad behaviour because actually they're unlikely to face the consequences if that leniency results in another attack. But women don't have that luxury.

I am a relatively recent feminist too. I used to think I much preferred the company of men. In the past I've both tried to be more like a man and be liked more by men (be the cool girl etc). Now I can see that was all probably just survival tactics. I adore the men in my life now. But the ones who've abused me have cast quite the shadow.

Well, yes, NAMALT. But the ones who are, it's not like they have it tattoo'ed on their forehead, is it? Nor do they restrict themselves to one victim, they're greedy little fuckers, victimising as many women as they can. So not all, but enough for EVERY woman to be at risk from at least one of them at some point in her life.

"She said women live their life as prey and can't afford not to be wary."
I absolutely agree with this. We take precautions without realising that's what we're doing.

OP, you said "I’m ok that I’m wary of men in general because of my experiences." Frankly I'd be very worried about you if you weren't wary. Wary is healthy. Wary is learning from your experiences. Wary can keep you safe.

Another MNer on another thread posted a link to The Shark Cage. It made a lot of sense to me, and maybe it will to you too.

I used to think it was normal and I wasn't doing enough to protect myself. Always my fault for being friendly or looking the way I did. Same for the friends I grew up with, it's your responsibility as a female to make sure you aren't attacked. If you are it's your fault and also the other females I knew would turn their back on one another because we were all conditioned to believe we must have behaved in a way to deserve it.

I remember my friend at 17 who was in an violent and sexually abusive relationship being told by her parents it must be her fault. If she was a good girl it wouldn't happen to her.

What does NAMALT mean? Not all men are.......?

Living our lives as prey......wow, I actually never thought about it in that way, but yes, that’s exactly how I feel.

I’m lucky in that I don’t have to interact much at all with men and I don’t go out by myself unless it’s in the car, so I do feel safer these days.

I have been very badly sexually assaulted in the past, twice by senior doctors as well, so I really detest male medics in particular.

women live their life as prey and can't afford not to be wary.

So, so true.

I've had my breasts grabbed in a pub when I've had a drink in each hand and could do nothing; I had a phone calls as a younger and older teenager threatening me in the most vile ways; I've been raped; I've escaped from rape; I've thought "fuck it" and gone along with sex or sexual acts just to get it over with because the rhetoric "I won't pressure you, I'm not like that" didn't match their actions; I've been aggressively threatened with rape; less aggressively threatened with rape and just treated as less than by someone I rejected for sex but didn't actually go as far as coercing me into sex; been coerced into sex...

I've had things shouted at me in the street by men who were old enough to know better and by boys who were barely old enough to know what they were saying.

I am wary.

I'm not scared. I'm not scared of men. I don't allow what some of them have done to make me fearful of them, but I am always mindful of what they are capable of and I don't trust any of them.

And if the decent men don't like that then it is the crappy men who are responsible they need to get arsey with. Not the women who are protecting themselves.

I remember my friend at 17 who was in an violent and sexually abusive relationship being told by her parents it must be her fault. If she was a good girl it wouldn't happen to her.

My mother told me that I ought to be careful not to provoke him as, the next time, he might dump me...

This is a sad thread. I spent so long thinking it was just and there was something wrong with me.

Thank god for MN and opening my eyes to this being a struggle women go through and it's not just me

It's not just you, Boot

GoldenWonderwall, I hear you and I understand very well.

We have an obligation to the young ones to talk about this out loud so they do not grow up internalizing:
the first rule of misogyny is that women are responsible for what men do, and the tenth rule of misogyny that the worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.

NAMALT and "Real men don't rape" and "women do it too" are all DARVO tactics to keep women from talking about male violence, the greatest human rights crisis the world has ever known.

I'm one of the lucky minority - I've never experienced male violence.

Countless - and I mean countless - examples of low level sexual harassment and assault, but no actual violence.

But I hear you. I still live my life as prey. I'm still automatically scared of unknown men in certain situations.

How can any woman not be?

I remember getting into a conversation on here about male violence and our victim-blaming culture, once.

I said that I was out running and had to pass through a small wooded area (in daylight) - when two male runners approached me. My visceral reaction was that adrenalin-pumping fear, until they blithely passed by, on their way.

Of course they meant me no harm. But how was I to feel sure about that?

Anyway, some handmaiden, who was NAMALT-ing all over the thread - you know, 'most men are nice', 'don't tar all men with the same brush', 'that's soooo sexist', 'how can you live your life being so scared all the time?' yada, yada...

...had the audacity to tell me I was indulging in highly risky behaviour, by running alone somewhere like that.

So on the one hand, I'm the scardy-cat, living life terrified by men. While she was the one who would never dare to actually go out alone like I was doing.

The cognitive dissonance is strong on those who feel the innate need to deny reality.

I know first-hand that not all men are like that - because I don't even know any men like that! But it doesn't alter the fact that vast swathes of men assault, rape and kill women. On a daily basis.

A frightening situation occurred in my life when I was in my early 20s. I had a longish journey to make on public transport and my bus was at 06:20. I had to walk about a mile past woodland and through a deserted industrial estate to get to the bus stop. There was no other option for me, I had to do it to get to my training placement. It was during the winter, so very dark at that time of the morning.

On my walk, I would occasionally encounter a man on a bike riding to his place of work. I used to be terrified. It was before the days of any cctv so he could have easily attacked me and gotten away with it. There was no way of dealing with the situation other than to hope and pray nothing happened to me. Thankfully it didn’t, but I spent a hellish time during that time on placement constantly feeling frightened and feeling like a sitting duck. I was reckless doing those walks, but I had no other choice if I wanted to earn a living.

There's a fucking reason.

He gets it! OMG some bloke gets it. Yay. Throw a parade. Oh, fuck, he's a predator too. www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-10/hbo-removes-louis-c-k-concerts-says-he-won-t-appear-on-show

Luckily I'm old enough, pissed off enough, wary enough and married enough to ward off 99% of it now. But I remember being 20, blonde and alone. Vividly.

That's fucking unbelieveable.

Yes also with you golden
It's not even just the violent predatory behaviour that gets me. It's the fact that so many men will lie and manipulate to get sex and see nothing wrong with that. So i never know if a man is being friendly because he's nice, or because he wants a shag and at some point in the future there is going to be an awkward or scary conversation.

yes. I've only ever been subject to very low level stuff, but am still wary, always, always.

I never engage with a man unless I know him, would never chat to a stranger, never exchange friendly pleasantries with the man working at the garage (I go there all the time, what if he gets the wrong idea?).

I'm actually a pretty friendly, chatty person. But only with women, It's safer that way.