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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Do women like 'cis'?

397 replies

CisMyArse · 19/03/2018 10:03

Bloody gone and tangled myself in a twitter argument.

I don't like the term Cis, not many here do neither. I should have worded it differently, but I can't let it go. Someone has asked me how I can speak for all women and I don't know how to retort Blush

OP posts:
DarthArts · 19/03/2018 21:17

I don't like it because I feel it presumes to sub categorise woman within their own sex.

You don't need a sub description of what an adult human female is unless your intent is to distort the definition to suit a specific agenda or ideology.

Waddlelikeapenguin · 19/03/2018 22:06

Hate cis. There are women, there are men. A subgroup of men are transwomen, a subgroup of women are transmen.

I think it's a bit like being called a heathen? That may be what a person with religious belief would call me as I am an atheist but as I dont have their religious or gender belief then i am an atheist woman.

thebewilderness · 19/03/2018 23:28

They use TERF when they want to call you a heathen non believer.

nocoolnamesleft · 20/03/2018 03:15

Cis misgenders me, because I believe that gender is primarily made up misogynistic bollocks, designed to keep women in their place.

And the more I hear about the irrationalities of the TRAs, the more I feel sorry for people with actual gender dysphoria, who are being chucked under the bus even worse than we are.

user838383 · 20/03/2018 07:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheGoldenBough · 20/03/2018 08:06

I reject cis amd would correct anyone who attempted to use the term regarding, or around, me.

Why?

Well...

Biological women are the majority, the default. No determiner is needed.

Transwomen need a determiner because they are male and not female.

I am a woman because my biology determines that I am not because of how I feel.

I have no idea what the head feelz are like with regards to womanhood because I don't share these. I only know what the biological feelz are but these cannot be what the TW refer to because they do not share them.

I have not accepted the gender identity that correlates with my biological sex that I was 'assigned' at birth. In fact, I have rejected it every step of the way. I spent my childhood, teenage years, twenties and thirties rejecting the societal and familial expectations of me as a girl and then a woman. I did not accept them.

So, no, I am not 'cis' anything

WashingUpWarrior · 20/03/2018 13:50

The main reason that this prefix 'cis' is in use is to enable discussions about women who were regarded female at birth and women who were not. If you hate 'cis' so much, then ditch this differentiation and simply call all of us 'women', independent of what doctors called us at birth.

I like the fact that there are several varieties of womanhood, not only socially, mentally and emotionally, but also physically. It means we are getting closer to ditching the connection between one's body parts and one's gender.

I don't relate to the passionate clinging to a particular sex of gender - I don't understand it from cis people nor from trans people, but I don't need to, do I? If you feel like as a particular sex or gender, then I only have to accept that.

This whole attitude of refusing to accept other people's self-identification is alien to me, and yes, it seems a tad ridiculous too. And driven mostly by a weird kind of paranoia...

Tralalee · 20/03/2018 13:56

This whole attitude of refusing to accept other people's self-identification is alien to me, and yes, it seems a tad ridiculous too

Good. I self identify as not cis. So don't call me cis. Hth.

swivelchair · 20/03/2018 14:05

It means we are getting closer to ditching the connection between one's body parts and one's gender.

But it's not is it? It means we've just added a new box for people who believe in gender, feel that the one that society assigns to their sex is wrong, and want to be the gender assigned to the other sex.

Personally, I feel we should chuck out the whole notion of gender, and all that matters, and even then, only matters for some things, is sex.

In the meantime, while waiting for other people to catch up, I think that the differentiator should still be sex, as that's the only objectively describable and verifiable bit - and for the vast majority of people, that's easily determined by amateurs, even at a distance, and despite whatever that person might be wearing.

Unlike gender, which is ill-defined, not externally verifiable, and only seems to be in some people's heads.

AssassinatedBeauty · 20/03/2018 14:06

You can self identify as you like, @WashingUpWarrior. The point being made here is not to use "cis" as a label for other women, either en masse or individually, when you have no idea if that's how they identify or not.

It's not about "clinging" to a sex, it's about sex being relevant in a few specific circumstances, and simultaneously throwing all notions of gender constructs away as unhelpful and repressive.

Vickxy · 20/03/2018 14:17

Its just not needeed really

Woman means adult human female
So, all these claimin g that we need trans and cis also...this is what they are saying when assigning 'cis' to women

Female adult human female.

Like, its nonsensical. An adult human female is female. If the person claiming womanhood is male, then transwomen is used (though I prefer trans identifying male, as its more accurate and includes all 'non-binary' and other ridiculous labels that the kdis of today use)

Silk29 · 20/03/2018 14:32

WashingUpWarrior I'm interested in where you learnt about gender and trans issues? Any particular website(s)?

Do you refer to people as 'cis' in real life?

Have you always believed that sex (not gender) is a social construct and biology is a lie?

LangCleg · 20/03/2018 14:38

It means we are getting closer to ditching the connection between one's body parts and one's gender.

No; it means precisely the opposite.

Right wing conservatives: your behaviour (gender) must match your body (sex). This is a regressive ideology.

Transactivists: your body (sex) must match your behaviour (gender). This is a regressive ideology.

Feminists: it doesn't matter what your body (sex) is, your behaviour (gender) is fine any way you want it. This is a progressive ideology.

Greenyogagirl · 20/03/2018 14:43

Men, trans men, women, trans women.
No need to add the ‘cis’

vesuvia · 20/03/2018 14:48

The users of "cis" usually claim that it is just an inoffensive, factual, objective, accurate, neutral word that harmlessly and ever-so-helpfully distinguishes between people who are not transgendered ("cis") and people who are transgendered (trans).

I do not accept that "cis" is these innocent harmless things because when someone labels another person as "cis", they are showing their support for the patriarchy-supporting political ideology of transgenderism, an ideology that is harmful to women and girls.

"Cis woman" and "cis lesbian" are important parts of the misogynistic and homophobic ideology of transgenderism. The "cis" prefix is deliberately used to further transgenderism's aim of relegating women to "cis women" and relegating lesbians to "cis lesbians", mere subsets of women and lesbians. Women is becoming a category that women must share with transwomen, whether women like it or not. Lesbian is becoming a category that lesbians must share with "trans lesbians" (i.e. transgender-identifying males who want sexual intercourse with females), whether lesbians like it or not.

For many years, transgender-identifying males have been called transwomen, which is a noun that recognises their specific life experience. Transgenderism has worked hard to bring about a subtle and seeming harmless but extremely significant change in word use - nowadays it is politically correct to use the term "trans women" where trans has become an adjective rather than part of a noun. This has been done to force people to accept the lie that transgender-identifying male people are just another type of women, like how "blonde", "talented", "rich", "poor", "fat", "thin", "old", "young", "British", "Japanese" etc. describe subsets of women. But it is a false comparison. The latter categories have actual women in them, because they are women who actually are those things. A transwoman is not any type of woman, not even a trans woman in the sense that they are not a biologically female person who is trans.

"Trans woman" is usually regarded as a description of a male person who feels they are a woman, but I think it is actually a more accurate description of a female person who feels that they are a man, which many people describe as a "transman". Likewise, "trans man" is a usually regarded as a description of a female person who feels they are a man, but I think it is actually a more accurate description of a male person who feels that they are a woman, which many people describe as a "transwoman".

BTW, I think it is also more accurate to describe a transwoman's so-called "neovagina" as a "neopenis" or "neoscrotum", but male doctors have decided that the removal of a male's penis and repurposing of a male's scrotum magically transforms male anatomy into female anatomy and therefore a pseudo female anatomical name for their creation has been invented.

All these words and distortions of their meanings are part of transgenderism's deliberate attempts at Orwellian redefinition of language that is designed to redefine illusion as reality, reality as illusion, lies as truth and truth as lies. This misogyny causes a relegation of women in patriarchy's gender hierarchy, and this is causing a reduction in the rights of women and girls.

I'm an adult human female. This traditional meaning of woman describes me and every other woman (the people with female biology) just fine thanks. Exclusion of male people from the category women is valid and justified because male people will always be male and can never be women. Nothing they can do will change that, so a redefinition of woman is not needed. There is already a word for adult people who are not women - it is not "transwomen" or "trans women", it is men. People who don't like the exclusion of male people from womanhood, can go argue with men to force men to be more accepting of other men.

Silk29 · 20/03/2018 14:57

vesuvia Well said. Language is important.

Ihatemyclients · 20/03/2018 15:34

Cis is a descriptor. Like black / white / gay / straight / trans etc.

FeministBadger · 20/03/2018 15:47

Thanks Vesuvia.

Do you know what pisses me off the most? When people say trans women are women and cis a descriptor like black or old or disabled. Uh no, I think you'll find that woman means adult human female which all WOMEN are whether they're black, or old or disabled without any need for a qualifier, but which transwomen most decidedly are not because they are adult human MALES.

thebewilderness · 20/03/2018 15:51

Only males can be "transwomen". That is how we know they are men. Refusing to take no for an answer is how we know they are abusive men.
Women are not failed men, despite what Aristotle thought, and failed men are not women by default.

Greenyogagirl · 20/03/2018 16:01

How is ‘cis’ a descriptor when ‘woman’ is

SlowlyShrinking · 20/03/2018 16:16

Great post, vesuvia
You know what pisses me off most, FeministBadger? When people say ‘oh! It sounds like you’re saying that transwomen are lesser women because they don’t have uteruses/vaginas/periods/whatever 😮’ the subtext being that I think that women who’ve had hysterectomies (which I’m quite likely to be one of soon, actually) are lesser women. NO, YOU FUCKING DICKHEAD! I don’t think that the men you call ‘transwomen’ are lesser women. I don’t think they are women AT ALL. And I know this because THEY ARE MEN. It’s so obvious that I can’t believe anyone is even questioning it.

Kneedeepinunicorns · 20/03/2018 16:20

What do black, white, Japanese, tall, rich, poor, disabled, Muslim, Christian, Jewish, women all have in common?

Do transwomen have that thing too?

Cis is not a descriptor. It is not harmless or neutral. It's a coercively assigned label. Don't apply it to me please.

merrymouse · 20/03/2018 16:22

I like the fact that there are several varieties of womanhood, not only socially, mentally and emotionally, but also physically

But how is 'womanhood' different to just being human?

I can understand why, as Assasinated Beauty says, sex is relevant in a few specific circumstances, but have no clue what women and trans women have in common that they don't also share with men.

Teacuphiccup · 20/03/2018 16:28

A woman who’s had a hysterectomy is a woman because if she wasn’t a woman she couldn’t have had a hysterectomy.

Also it’s not just about individual experience it’s about societal expectations of you being within that biological class. I haven’t had a baby and I don’t get periods but people don’t know that when they meet me, I am still treat by society as someone who could get pregnant. I can be prejudiced against by my employer in case I get pregnant and yet never actually have a baby myself.
Female experiences aren’t female experiences because they are shared by all female people, they are female experiences because ONLY female people can experience them.

joystir59 · 20/03/2018 16:44

loopsdefruit being female isn't an innate feeling; it is an innate biological reality.

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