Do women like 'cis'?

[CisMyArse]

Bloody gone and tangled myself in a twitter argument.

I don't like the term Cis, not many here do neither. I should have worded it differently, but I can't let it go. Someone has asked me how I can speak for all women and I don't know how to retort

But what I don't understand is why, if women are so disadvantaged and so oppressed, men want to become women?

I'd guess some are either oblivious to the forms of oppression faced by women, or else are aware that because they are rooted in our biology they won't be on the receiving end. TRA doublethink turns the very mention of issues related to childbearing, menstruation, FGM etc into 'cis privileged' exclusion of them ffs.

"But what I don't understand is why, if women are so disadvantaged and so oppressed, men want to become women?"

I don't think they see it that way. What many of the more aggressive male-to-female trans activists remind me of more than anything is the 'men's rights' types you used to come across a lot on the internet. And they were often driven by incredible jealousy and resentment towards women (and the 'alpha' males they felt they couldn't compete with), along with a belief that everything in life was easier for women (especially 'getting' sex), that schools and workplaces and the legal system and everything were set up to favour females. They thought women were spoilt princesses who whined about being victims while having all the privilege.

I strongly suspect these are the same people (or the next generation of them). It's not too hard to see how they'd take the logical step of 'becoming' women themselves, especially if there was an opportunity to punish and push out actual women with 'terf', 'cis', etc and turn everything around so they themselves got to be the most special princess/victims of all.

(I should add, I'm not at all suggesting this is the motivation for all trans people. Just the men who simultaneously seem to hate and want to be women).

There are loads of forums were men, trans or otherwise, talk about women. Jealousy, resentment, it's all there.

'Terf bangs' was a bit of an eye-opener for me.

Bangs are what Americans call a fringe.

Something that is difficult for many men, due to male pattern baldness.
(Hence why a lot of them wear a hat, or scarf).

The fact that they unequivocally equate a coveted hairline pattern, that is more common in women than men, with the very women they hate and threaten, is very revealing.

It's not women's bangs, it's terf bangs.

The thing that has shocked me is not the TRAs themselves (after all the internet is full of people with dodgy ideas) but how many sane and logical people, including women who call themselves feminists, appear to accept their beliefs.

It’s as though the Labour Party said “We’re campaigning for the rights of low paid workers, and by the way the earth is flat”.

I’m grateful for people like loopy who contribute to these discussions in good spirit. But I’m frustrated that they don’t seem to be able to explain why a term like cis isn’t offensive, yet don’t seem to change their minds.

Wow thanks for answering me in such depth and with such clarity. I absolutely reject 'cis' for all the reasons listed above and so much more eloquently expressed than I could.

I was one of those pony-mad little girls. Lived, breathed, ate, slept horses. I desperately wanted to be a horse and thought I could make it happen if I tried hard enough. I found I could move my ears and was convinced I was on my way to being a horse. If someone had come along at that point and fed me a magic potion (drugs) and offered to introduce me to a horse maker (surgeon) which would have made me into a horse, I'd have signed up like a shot. Not gender dysphoria but species

I grew out of it.

The bit about 'trans' children really bothers me. When I wasn't being a horse I was what was known then as a tomboy and wanted to be a boy, because boys were allowed to do all the good stuff and didn't have to wear a dress and stay clean. I've never ever had any doubt about being female though, and am very proud to be a strong woman amongst other strong women.

Amazing posts on here. Thanks to all

But what I don't understand is why, if women are so disadvantaged and so oppressed, men want to become women?

Lots of reasons for this as many pps have mentioned.

There are those who actively get off on the subordination/lesser aspect of being a woman. They love the oppression while taking every opportunity to complain about it and indulge in some poor little me attention seeking.

Also I've come to believe that most men only see the vanishingly small number of glamourous/attractive/young/wealthy women who seem to have the easy, pampered life of a princess and truly believe it's like that for all women.

The plain/poor/disabled/old/ordinary vast, vast majority of women for whom life is not at all like that are totally invisible to them.

To me, their idea of women (and it very much is an idea in a man's head) seems to be more like a fantasy/fetish live action role/cos play in which they can pick and choose the parts they like and bin the rest.

The thing that has shocked me is not the TRAs themselves (after all the internet is full of people with dodgy ideas) but how many sane and logical people, including women who call themselves feminists, appear to accept their beliefs.

What this is done is given every misogynist, predator, fetishist on the planets, a means of expressing their repugnant opinions, and legitimising it.

The fact that the ideology is being taught in schools, with girls being told they are worthless and they need to make way for boys if those boys say so, is brainwashing on a huge scale.

I don't understand how more people aren't horrified, other than acknowledging quite how effective brainwashing can be.

Arkengarthdale wrote - "what I don't understand is why, if women are so disadvantaged and so oppressed, men want to become women?"

The idea that women are disadvantaged or oppressed is very much a minority view, for trans people and non-trans people alike. The developed world is an environment where the dominant opinion is that women's oppression is a thing of the past.

I suspect that very few transgender-identifying male people accept a second wave (1960s and 1970s style) feminist analysis of women's oppression as reality.

But what I don't understand is why, if women are so disadvantaged and so oppressed, men want to become women?

A good chunk of men don't believe in male privilege or are aware that women are disadvantaged for being women.

This is completely it. The amount of trans women I saw on Twitter on Women's Day making a point of 'Remember not all women have uteruses and your uterus/vagina icons exclude trans women' was staggering.
In a world where women's bodies are regulated and subject to endless indignities simply for those uteruses and vaginas, the sheer navel-gazing and lack of comprehension you'd need to make that kind of comment on Women's Day tells you everything you need to know about how much they understand women's issues.

Also the complete (possibly wilful) misunderstanding of intersectional feminism is infuriating.
Intersectional feminism is the recognition that different types of women face different challenges especially where other types of discrimination like racism come into play.
It doesnt mean 'exclude all issues that dont affect trans women'.

Once I came to realize that transgender advocates were using the tactics of abusive men everywhere I stopped giving them the benefit of the doubt regarding possible misunderstandings.
They do it because it works. They do it because it gets them what they want. When it no longer gets them the result they want they keep doing it because it has become who they are.

I hate the term "cis" because it's too often used as an insult. I've seen it everywhere, especially on Tumblr. So whenever I see or hear the word "cis" I'll get annoyed. It's just so unnecessary.

Found the perfect badge on Etsy today

www.etsy.com/uk/listing/563213386/dont-call-me-cis-25mm-feminist-button?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=badges&ref=sr_gallery-3-13

I hate the term cis, as others have said it's a term that has been imposed on women not a word we have chosen ourselves and it is used to imply we are a subset of women.

I've also seen it used too often by trans as an insult or slur.

@SunsetBeetch That's brilliant, I want that.

Materialist - that's such a mind-blowing thought. It makes such sense when you consider how women's roles were manipulated during and after WW2. When during it was women's patriotic duty to work, but after the war it was suddenly so much better for them to be at home with their children.

Excellent analogy.

AgaiN ,excellent post. So clear.

@Materialist at 22/03/2018 03:34 Materialist that was a brilliant, brilliant post.