Do women like 'cis'?

[CisMyArse]

Bloody gone and tangled myself in a twitter argument.

I don't like the term Cis, not many here do neither. I should have worded it differently, but I can't let it go. Someone has asked me how I can speak for all women and I don't know how to retort

@loopsdefruit are you genuinely proud of your university only attracting like minded people? You find this nicer than having a range of people with a range of beliefs, views and culture?

What has happened to universities to make them such homogenous, language policing places? When I was at university many years ago now, it was full of people from lots of different places and backgrounds.

You will notice, though, that the Eton/Rugby/Harrow to Oxbridge to policy making remains entirely untouched. The challenge to it, from what the academy used to be, has been completely neutered by postmodernism. The challenge is now no more because it's simply producing useful idiots who have absolutely no intention of subverting the status quo in any way that doesn't involve blue hair dye or lipstick, or lecturing "the poor" on correct pronoun usage.

Lang haha Stella Creasy went to Oxbridge and LSE, my uni is nowhere near that powerful or fancy. Just a normal uni.

Assassinated you go where you think you'll be happy, and where you think you'll make friends. I wouldn't want to be somewhere that didn't accept me or constantly made me feel like I had to stand up for my identity, I imagine that's why people end up around like-minded people. It's their home as well as their workplace after all.

I'm proud of my uni, as a whole, it's a little frustrating sometimes that it's so homogeneous, but it is what it is. I wouldn't go somewhere I'd be unhappy just so that I got a more varied experience.

I went somewhere where I thought I'd learn something, that had a good rep for what I wanted to study.

Why would you assume that having a mix of people with different beliefs/cultures/backgrounds/attitudes etc mean you wouldn't be accepted or have to stand up for your identity?

Lang haha Stella Creasy went to Oxbridge and LSE, my uni is nowhere near that powerful or fancy. Just a normal uni.

I know where Stella went. I speak of Stella because she is a policy maker steeped in this ideology who was being as wilfully blind as you - and to the detriment of women - in public only yesterday.

Address the actual point: the academy has become so corrupted by homogenous postmodern thinking that it is doing actual harm to the nation, and particularly the most vulnerable, especially marginalised women (who don't come complete with penis).

Cis, I'm having one of those days today too
The cultists are out in force!

Lang I meant, I doubt many policy makers are coming out of my uni, not when the government is full of people from Oxbridge.

assassinated when I started uni I didn't really know what I wanted to do with my life, so the degree was kind of less important to me than the experience of university. Ironically I ended up at one of the best universities for my particular course, couldn't care less though as I'm not going to be doing anything related to my undergrad degree.

What I cared about was making friends, the academic staff being nice, the area being pleasant, not being too far from home (but not too close either), and some fun stuff to do outside of class. I'd imagine a lot of people feel the same when deciding on a university.

Uni equals not much to do with learning these days, I guess. It's a lifestyle choice, rather than a learning opportunity.

I also didn't know what I was going to do with my life when I chose my course and uni. I did know that I wanted to learn more and different things, and chose a course and uni that facilitated that.

(I suppose I ought, at this point, to put my hand up and confess to having attended a posh uni. )

when I started uni I didn't really know what I wanted to do with my life, so the degree was kind of less important to me than the experience of university

Christ, things have changed. When I started Uni, I spent weeks combing the different options for the course I wanted to do (the course itself picked because I needed to be able to get a job at the end of my degree) - sure, when it came to visits, I rejected one out of hand, and was strongly attracted to a different one's campus, but 'the university experience' was at the very back of my mind compared to getting enough education in the right field to be able to support myself the rest of my life.

I strongly reject cis, because I know that 'woman' is an objective category, and has nothing to do with what's in my head. Being an adult, human, female is all it means, and trying to change the definition to include males without providing a new, non-circular definition, which includes me, and a transwomen, but excludes my sons and male partner, has so far eluded everyone.

Loops - you let the cat out of the bag way back when you said this:
(I refuse to use 'normal' or 'real' but don't mind using natal or even biological") because I don't actually want to offend people

We are all a bit sick of the fact that normal and real is now considered offensive by twits like you, cos this is causing real damage to normal people, and we are having a right ballsache trying to stop it. People with real jobs in the normal world, that is, not students at uni. You should be grateful people are continuing to be so polite to you because you seem incapable of any self reflection.

I remember saying, getting on for 20 years ago, that I was quite glad to have got out of university teaching when I did, because universities were increasingly turning from places of learning into "finishing schools" for the middle classes. How right I was.

Wanting to go for to university for the love of learning - laudable and admirable aim. Wanting to go to university because you need a specific training to do a specific job (medicine, law, engineering) - equally laudable and an admirable aim. Wanting to go "for the experience" - fuck's sake, go bungee jumping, embrace extreme sports, join a yoga retreat, walk from coast to coast across the USA, find yourself on a sheep farm in New South Wales. But don't waste everyone's time at university.

Wait until men start being called "cis men"

My dh heard that term the other day and was bloody livid

I'm so old that when I went to university, my degree wasn't a product that I was a paying customer for. No tuition fees. It changes the balance completely, I feel.

It's just made me remember that my parents were better off for cash than they had been when I was little so I didn't get a full maintenance grant. But the assessment got sent out in the form of a letter explaining what HM Gov would give me and what HM Gov expected my parents to give me. And the trick was that your parents would write you a covenant for their contribution and then they could claim income tax back on it.

My flatmates and I all put in £5 per week each for food and toiletries and took it in turns to cook. And we ate really well off that fiver! And most of us signed on during the summer cos we were too busy politicking to do any actual work.

Cis is imposed on people by TRAs as the opposite of trans. The homo/heterosexual equivalent term is the opposite of straight which was imposed on homosexuals - bent. As far as I am aware 'bent' is highly offensive as is 'cis' .

my university is full of quite similar people who all ascribe to broadly similar beliefs.

I'm willing to bet it isn't, you just move in very limited circles.
I've been working/studying in a university for a lot longer than you have and I've met a lot more lecturers and students than you.
I do teach and research some things that involve humans (I'm in STEM but the "soft" end). In some of what I do it would be totally meaningless to include trans women in the category of women. And as I say even in a social setting I've never heard a student refer to themselves (or staff ditto or staff referring to students) as cis.

I'm willing to bet it isn't, you just move in very limited circles

This is very possible. I was over in the Electronics building at my Uni. I was in all the relevant clubs. At one point, I found myself president of one of these clubs (didn't step back fast enough) and had to go and engage with the Student's Union. It was a whole other world of people, all on the same campus. People who had entire days without lectures where they could get involved with student politics, who, while I was running between labs, lectures, and my job, had time to stand for secretary of this, or Officer for that.

I bet if you head on over to the engineering building at your uni, you'll find a whole load of men and women that have very different ideas and opinions to you, and you both barely know that the other exists.

Is anyone actually cis even if it is accepted as a term
I don't accept it but the trans umbrella is so wide that most people I know would be trans anyway

At one point, I found myself president of one of these clubs (didn't step back fast enough)
Ha! I recognise that phenomenon.

I like ‘real women’ and ‘pretend women’ instead of cis and trans women

I like ‘women’ and ‘pretend women’ instead of cis and trans women.

Corrected that for you. :)

Thanks, Glad
Even better 👌🏽

I hate it because it assumes that everybody has a gender identity which is absolutely bonkers and completely regressive. I am at a loss to understand why anybody would accept it.

It's fine with me. Quite a useful little word in discussions about trans- and cis women. I'm a cis woman.