Do women like 'cis'?

[CisMyArse]

Bloody gone and tangled myself in a twitter argument.

I don't like the term Cis, not many here do neither. I should have worded it differently, but I can't let it go. Someone has asked me how I can speak for all women and I don't know how to retort

@loopsdefruit I would tell you that there is no need for an additional descriptor. Woman would be sufficient.

In what do you believe this innate feeling of gender resides if not in your soul or your brain?

Hate it. I am a woman and I don't accept that I belong to any subset of women. Nor do I wish to be asked about my sexual preferences by anyone without a personal interest in them.

midge I'm not entirely sure I understand? I use 'cis' and list my pronouns on certain anonymous social media sites, because I don't like being misgendered (it's not triggering or upsetting, it's just not something I like). I do this because while my full name is an obviously female name, the shortened form I use could be used for someone of any gender.

Sometimes people see my shortened name and assume I am male, it's fine, we laugh about it and move on. I choose to present in a reasonably feminine way, if I didn't do that I'd probably make it clearer I was female (either by using my full name more or just telling people) because again I don't like being misgendered.

I, personally, use 'cis' more when talking about something in which me being cis is relevant, so in a discussion around trans issues or talking about periods or pregnancy etc...

As a cis woman I have different lived experiences to a trans person, and sometimes my experiences are more central to a debate and sometimes I need to take a step back and listen more to someone who's experiences are more central.

Also, sometimes I mess up, or say things wrong, and it's important to qualify my statements with "I am cis, so this might be wrong, but this is how I see the issue"

It’s all about ‘teh feelz’ innit. That’s all I’m hearing from defenders of the term cis. I feel like a women therefore I am.

I don’t feel like anything. Agender in yoof parlance but I am a woman because I have a biologically female body. So I’m not cis because I don’t have teh feelz - I’m certainly not trans - what the fuck would da yoof call me? Where’s my label?

I like the point made above if cis is “feeling” matching bio sex, how can anyone attribute the label cis to another women without knowing how they feel?

@mummyretired I don't understand, what does it have to do with your sexual preferences?

loops Are you studying gender studies or something similar? There are very many subjects where students' identities, privilege and oppression would never come up in lectures or seminars - astrophysics, for an obvious example. It's understandable if 'cis' is relevant to your particular course and you use it. Generalising to your whole university based on that would be a mistake.

FWIW I'm in the social sciences and 'cis' was never mentioned at my undergraduate university and has come up once at postgrad, at which point I made it clear that I wasn't cis and disagreed with the term. Some people said they were happy to be called cis. Most people didn't comment one way or the other.

assassinated I didn't say it wasn't 'in' your brain, I said I don't think women and men have different brains (like on a scan). Everything that makes you is in your brain. I see it as similar to sexuality, your brain is attracted to people in various different ways and that is your sexuality. Your brain makes you feel male/female/neither/both/other and that is your gender-identity. It's how I understand it based on my own personal experience, and the experiences of people I have spoken to (both trans and cis)

Until science proves it one way or the other it's just belief based on lived experience.

I would also always want to use a descriptor, because otherwise I personally feel it is othering. We would have to agree to compromise in that situation.

loopsdefruit I understand that you think you use it for practical reasons but you do realise you don’t need to use ‘cis’ right? If a trans person calls herself a transwoman then why do you need the term cis? You are a woman; you don’t need to add anything extra. It’s silly and pointless and frankly is rather detrimental to woman. We don’t need more male misogyny imposed on us thanks.

Loathe it.

It has a proper meaning in genetics (cis/trans control elements for genes ie local/non local elements) and I think a specific meaning in chemistry too.

Applied to women it’s just a label to put is in our place as lesser. Sod that

Applied to women it’s just a label to put us in our place as lesser. Sod that

totally agree, it’s used in very hateful language against woman...’die cis bitch’ for example

Astraia I am not studying gender studies, but issues surrounding privilege have come up in almost all of my modules in all 4 years of my degree. I'm also not studying astrophysics though :)

I agree that a lot of subjects wouldn't have these issues discussed, but my university also has policies around inclusive language in the university and also the SU which I would imagine people would be familiar with. Also you can discuss things with people in other courses and "Big Issues" do often come up. I would feel pretty comfortable saying that most of the students in my university will have used cis at least once and understood it the way I understand it, especially as it gets more prevalent in school settings (PSHE/sociology/psychology)

Loops - so what does feeling like a woman me to you?

I think many women wouldnt have a clue what "feeling like a woman" is . Or at least not in ways that depict gender stereotypes that feminists are refuting.

This is where the problem lies. If "cis" means fdeeling like a woman, but only a few women have this innate understand ding then most women would be happy just to be women.

I don't say not straight, not black, not slim woman. Why on earth do I need a word to say not trans? Woman and transwoman are fine.

So you're happy to explain it as a belief, which clearly many other people aren't going to share.

Why is it automatically "othering" to describe people by their different categories, if that's relevant to the topic at hand?

Do you have a term for those people who don't share your belief in an innate gender identity, but are not trans? I would have thought that's relevant to your studies, or do you simply assume that everyone who isn't trans has the same experience as you and label them all "cis"?

I teach psychology and don't use cis ;)

ilike because I am cis, so I will use cis. Trans people (not all trans people) have said they don't like the feeling of being 'othered' by having man/woman and trans man/woman.

Kinda like it's not women and lesbians or men and gay men.

Using 'just woman' implies that woman is the natural order of things and trans are something other.

Some people might be totally fine with that, I am not.

In the contexts when I have been referred to as cis, it has always been a a mildly condescending 'sit down and be educated' way, and as a slur at worst. Always a slightly patronising put down, with a corrective air, never ever in a positive, affirmative or celebratory way: "Go you, wonderful female-bodied cis woman, with your uterus and ovaries, breasts and clitoris, breastfeeding and menstruating (delete as applicable)!!" -all the things I am not, as a born female, allowed to talk about. It makes me mad!

Another woman who hates and sees no need for the CIS or any pther prefix. If needing to describe then women and transwomen, men and transmen does the job just fine. it is offensive and also not known by most of the population, just those in feminist, university or trans circles really (and those unfortunate enough to have to suffer recent diversity training in jobs, poor sods).

Until science proves it one way or the other it's just belief based on lived experience.

And belief systems shouldn't be codified into law through legislation.

Which is why we have this current mess of self ID.

It's similar to the notion of separation of church and state.

stick ok? There are lots of people who teach psych and do use it. It's by no means universal. I'm sure there are people who would teach the module I am taking now who wouldn't use cis. Doesn't make anyone right or wrong.

As to what feeling like a woman means to me, it means I feel like a women, I don't think I could express any of my other feelings any other way either. If I say I'm happy, it means I feel happy.

But I'm not trying to convince anyone else to agree with me, it doesn't impact me if you don't feel you have a gender-identity. I know a lot of people who have never thought about the difference between romantic and sexual attraction, that's fine, it doesn't stop me experiencing the things that I do in the way that I do.

Just don't take away anyone else's right to express themselves and ID the way they choose. If you feel that your rights are under threat, fight for them, I do not feel that so I won't join you but I also won't stop you. Live and let live.

I hate it. How dare anyone force a label on us and reduce us to a sub category?

loopsdefruit I appreciate your reasons but for me I don’t like the term cis being forced on me no more than person a trans woman likes the word trans. It’s a very complex issue but as a woman who has suffered years of sexism & misogynistic attitudes from society (like the vast majority of woman) it’s pretty horrendous having this term forced on us to make way for a person who was born with male privilege

It seems clear from @loopsdefruit description that it's main use is to apologise for privilege and to signal that you fully understand your position in the hierarchy.

I'm confused by your comments about where this innate sense of gender resides, loops. You said "I didn't say it wasn't 'in' your brain" and then almost immediately you explain that "everything that makes you is in your brain.". Which seems to be a contradiction, but perhaps I've misunderstood.

I'm a woman. I dislike it. I think it's a new made up label.

Loathe it, surprised at how a little word can make me feel angry
Can not stand it, thankfully I’ve never heard or seen it in rl, only ere

Here ;