Do women like 'cis'?

[CisMyArse]

Bloody gone and tangled myself in a twitter argument.

I don't like the term Cis, not many here do neither. I should have worded it differently, but I can't let it go. Someone has asked me how I can speak for all women and I don't know how to retort

Fewer people would mind it if it just meant 'non trans' as in not suffering from gender dysphoria or not having had reassignment surgery. It's the 'having an internal gender identity that matches your sex' that we object to. I don't identify with sex role stereotypes or the idea of a ladybrain. Very few feminists do.

It offends me just as much as a trans woman being offended by being called him. It describes what I am not - i.e. not trans. Since when should a vanishingly small proportion of the population dictate what half the world's population are called? Fuck off with imposing your genderisms on me.

Gender is a stupid word. How many of us - men or women - are 100% stereotypes?

Even the bloody zoo has Stockholm syndromed on to misusing gender. Pic in the Telegraph today of a new born spider monkey. Caption says they don't know yet what "gender" it is. No, you mean you don't know what sex it is you twerps. OK maybe that was the Telegraph being politically correct, but since the Telegraph is not known for political correctness I suspect it's twerps at the zoo. Perhaps we will only know what gender it is when it will only eat pink fruit and play with pink toys.

Astraia I didn't mean everyone was "ok" with it, more that everyone uses it. So in class discussions and when talking about various intersections of privilege/oppression, we use 'cis' to differentiate from trans identities. My friends use cis in any situation where we mention our identity (which doesn't happen a ton but occasionally)

Assassinated "you understand that some women find it offensive to be told that we are ok with harmful gender constructs that have been (and continue to be) used to oppress women?"

I don't agree that that is what cis means, so for me it's people getting angry because they don't understand the definition of a word and they are angry about the false definition. However, as I am more used to cis being used in a different way in my day-to-day life, I realise that many people to believe that they are using the correct definition, just like I do.

For me, and for many of my friends (both trans and cis) gender-identity is not the same as gender expression, gender expression being the 'stereotypical' constructs and expectations. For us, gender ID is the innate feeling of being male or female. If that feeling matches your body parts then you may choose to describe yourself as cis, if it does not you may choose to describe yourself as trans.

For me, it's just about what you feel is important about yourself and what you want other people to know. I don't always feel that "cis" is a big part of my identity, so I don't always use it, but in discussions around trans issues I will clarify that I am coming at things from the POV of a cis person and so may well be ignorant of some of the issues. That's just a thing that we do a lot at uni, when debating things with people who have varied experiences.

No one speaks for all women, but please feel free to speak for me on this one OP. I reject the term 'cis' for all the reasons previously given....

Absolutely hate it, I'm a woman and anyone that has an issue with that can just fuck right off! No one has a right to change what half the population's called for a few overly demanding males sake!! FOTFSOFATFOSM!

I don't have any innate sense of gender. Yet I am not trans. Being a woman isn't an identity, it's an accurate biological descriptor of me, that's all. It doesn't need another descriptor added to it that is not relevant to me and makes large assumptions about any identity that I may or may not believe in.

What does "cis" mean to you and your friends if it makes no reference to gender constructs?

No I hate the word cis! Apparently it’s only used when comparing a trans person with a non trans person. But I feel like it’s seeping into normal language. I don’t need another label thanks I AM A WOMAN! I have xx chromosomes and a vagina

so for me it's people getting angry because they don't understand the definition of a word and they are angry about the false definition

I understand the definition of the word just fine and I think you could do with some consciousness raising.

It’s an insult. I won’t be called cis, because i’m a woman. Davina (formerly Dave) is not a woman, they are a Transwoman. Cis is a useless word.

All great posts.

I sadly shouldn't have walked into an 'all women...' rant. Walking away from that one.

Cis is an unnecessary word. There are women and trans women.

I’m fine with it. Useful enough word.

I don't mind it at all. It's a descriptor, that's all - I don't see it has being value-laden. It comes from Latin and is the opposite of trans. It's just a useful word in my opinion. (I am cis, if that matters)

assassinated it refers to our innate sense of gender, which we all (my friends and I) feel we have. We are all cis women, regardless of how we choose to express that, not just because of our biological parts. That's what cis means to us, and to most of the people who I have come across who use it IRL. It's also what our lecturers mean when they say it, and how we use it in class discussions.

Lang Interesting? So, because we don't agree I need to develop something. This suggests you feel that my POV is less correct than yours? Do you maybe see why that might come across as patronising.

I could argue that your POV is less developed and eventually you'll learn more and come to the 'correct' conclusion, which is mine, but I don't think that people who disagree with me are immature/underdeveloped/stupid/blind, it's just difficult for people who don't have the same experience as others to always fully understand what others are saying.

If you don't feel an innate sense of gender, then it would make sense for you to assume that it doesn't exist. It doesn't make you right though, or wrong, just living your life.

it doesn't apply to me. i don't identify with my gender. if another woman wants to describe herself as cis that is fine but for any person to describe any other person or group of people as cis, without checking with them individually first, is extraordinarily offensive.

the notion of cis privilege for women is simply a tactic to erase their sex identity so that women are silenced about their oppression. why on earth TRAs seem to think there is a limited amount of oppression to go around and that in order to talk about the crap time that some trans people have one needs to deny that women also have a crap time is beyond me. it's like saying racism doesn't exist because people with disabilities are marginalised.

cismyarse out of interest, do you think all the posts are valuable or just the ones you agree with? There are a few of us saying we don't have a problem with it, is that informing your statistics?

Thinking about this further, if @loopsdefruit, their friends and other people of like minds want to use "cis" to describe themselves then that's absolutely fine. They clearly feel a need to have a descriptor that explains their belief in innate gendered souls or pink/blue brains, whichever it is.

But they surely can see that it's daft to then use that to apply to other people, as they have no idea if they have the same belief system or not? It's not a universal experience. Never mind that it's also often used as an insult or as a way of shutting down debate.

This suggests you feel that my POV is less correct than yours?

Depends if you're a feminist or not, I suppose. If you are happy using patriarchal imposed terms for yourself and don't see the need to look behind the label, you may well be perfectly happy not taking advantage of some consciousness raising. Entirely up to you.

I also feel like it’s a negative word used in a negative way such as ‘die cis scum’, ‘burn cis scum in a fire’ ‘rape to death cis bitch’ etc...

It’s also an imposed term which many of us haven’t chosen like perhaps someone who is lesbian, gay, gender fluid may have. No body likes things imposed on them.

No I don't like it. One, no one likes enforced change in something they are invested in. I'm invested in being a woman. Two, change takes persuasion and what has been done to persuade cis rejecters to accept that change to become Cis; nothing!. Three, the trans movement to me , needs some change management training (ironic given their reason for being), they need to fight for their cause, not just overule and dominate women into submission. Four, I feel the trans movement would get my utmost support if they were arguing for third spaces. To me it's not ok that they want in women's spaces for the reason women don't want men in their spaces.

@loopsdefruit so what do you call a woman who isn't trans but also isn't CIs because in line with your definition .

...I don't feel that being a woman is something that I think it necessary for people to know and in many cases it has been assumed that I am male until we have met face to face. I don't have an innate feeling of being a woman beyond the biological evidence

I don't think that most people calling people trans as opposed to just woman /man are being offensive, yet it is clearly perceived that way. The same goes for cis.

assassinated I personally haven't used it as an insult, and if someone prefers I not use 'cis' I would ask them what term they would prefer (I refuse to use 'normal' or 'real' but don't mind using natal or even biological") because I don't actually want to offend people. Cis is the accepted term at my university, and if someone has a problem with that they need to tell either us or our seminar tutors so we can change what we say.

I'm a christian so I do personally believe in a soul, but I don't think gender is to do with your soul, I don't think sexuality is to do with your soul. I also don't think gay people have different brains to straight people so don't ascribe to boy/girl brain theory either.

Lang I am a feminist yes, although not the type of feminist you would probably describe yourself as. I believe in gender equality, and that feminism is for the benefit of everyone. I am a feminist in the same way a lot of my classmates and university tutors are feminists, and I don't think our feminism is any more or less valuable than yours even though we disagree.

So loopsdefruit appears to think it is reasonable that half the world's population should using a term to separate itself from oh, roughly, 0.1% of the world's population, which now appears to be the default.

Trans logic indeed.

I don't know what it all means to be honest. (I have a vague idea, just not the certainty of someone who has been involved) I do not mix in circles where trans/cis/whatever has ever been mentioned. I do not know if that is because I live in a place or perhaps in a generation where this stuff doesn't exist so much or is unimportant.

I am a woman, born as one, raised as one - always have been, always will be. I see anything that labels me as something other than a woman to be rather unnecessary.