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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

The self-ID petition is live #2

921 replies

YesItsADebate · 17/03/2018 10:42

Here it is: petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

The signatories now stand at 5444.

The grey areas on the map are:

  • Airdrie and Shotts
  • Staffordshire Moorlands
  • Bassetlaw
  • Harlow
  • West Tyrone

The constituencies with the highest number of signatories are:

  • Calder Valley
  • Brighton Pavillion
  • Lewisham West and Penge
  • Lewisham, Deptford
  • Bristol West
  • Edinburgh North and Leith

It’s due to be reported in this week’s Mail on Sunday and Sunday Times.

Thankyou to everyone who has signed, shared, discussed and thought about this petition Flowers

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
againstvaw · 18/03/2018 19:06

Madigan set up a Twitter account calling himself Savile's apprentice. You really think he should have access to refuges. Most of the women in refuges have children.

Ihavesomeballs · 18/03/2018 19:12

timberlumberjack

Because LM is a self obsessed vacuous idiot, what could he possibly understand about the complexities of dv?? He's completely unqualified to even volunteer for such a difficult job.

timberlumberjack · 18/03/2018 19:13

I don't know who LM is, but obviously if they're not suitable for the role then they wouldn't get it. Gender doesn't really come into it. I imagine plenty of people who were born as women couldn't really do the job either.

Ihavesomeballs · 18/03/2018 19:18

LM is a male...that's why he is primarily unsuitable for such a role, and a very immature one at that. Generally women who have suffered dv at the hands of a man don't want to have one in their safe places.

Howyoualldoworkme · 18/03/2018 19:24

I've posted the petition on Gransnet. Some TRA has already turned up shouting transphobe Hmm

Ereshkigal · 18/03/2018 19:24

I had a lot of respect for Stella Creasy, but I really think she's lost the plot on this.

timberlumberjack · 18/03/2018 19:26

If you're talking about Lily Madigan, it's pretty obvious they're a trans woman. If they're not suitable to be working with vulnerable people, they wouldn't be allowed to. As I said earlier, I doubt people who work at shelters are allowed to be alone with vulnerable people due to risk of assault. If they're rubbish at the job they wouldn't continue to work there and if they're fine at it then there's no issue.

Silk29 · 18/03/2018 19:27

Amazing progress on the petition Wine I've been discussing it with a few friends and neighbours and they can't believe what's being proposed.

Looking at the map, I can only see 2 constituencies with 0 signatures- Leicester East and Kingston upon Hull East. Just got to keep spreading the word.

ilikebread · 18/03/2018 19:29

I’ve signed - Well done for putting this petition up.

I despair at society shunning debate. It’s really disappointing at gets us nowhere.

Ereshkigal · 18/03/2018 19:30

I think there's a place for trans women to be excluded from some areas of things such as domestic abuse shelters. I don't think many trans women would mind having to be in a different area, if you're in the situation where you're needing to use these facilities I doubt the fact that you can't be in a room next to someone else is too big on your mind.

Except that transactivists are pushing to be able to WORK in women's refuges. Because predatory males either are so narcissistic and lacking in empathy that they want to validate their "womanhood" that way, or they are actively abusing the law to get access to vulnerable women.

Ereshkigal · 18/03/2018 19:33

If they're rubbish at the job they wouldn't continue to work there and if they're fine at it then there's no issue.

There is the small issue that many vulnerable women don't fucking want males there. Why is this your business?

Ereshkigal · 18/03/2018 19:34

Do you think that a trans identified male who forces his presence on abused and traumatised women against their will has the requisite level of empathy for the job?

newtlover · 18/03/2018 19:35

it's not just about whther the trans identified males (=trans women) are predatory, or 'real'trans people, or whether or not they have a GRC, or whether the risks have been assessed. For women and children in refuges, ANY male body, especially in the space they have gone to in order to be safe, can be terrifying, enough to cause a panic attack.
The fact that some people don't understand this demonstrates their unsuitability to be there.
Any man who wants to support women who have survived DV can help by raising money, it's desperately needed.

boatyardblues · 18/03/2018 19:42

Women in shelters cannot take their teenaged sons into a shelter with them when they flee violence because males are so triggering for many of their clients. And yet transwomen (ie adult men) want in? That’s not OK. Sad

timberlumberjack · 18/03/2018 19:46

I've said all I've got to say re. domestic abuse shelters. Don't think the aggression was required.

Besides, whilst I value the points you've brought up, these are separate issues to the one on self-identification. Whilst I can't say I totally agree with the points, I can see how they could be an issue. Shouldn't take away from being able to self-identify though.

TERFPressJunky · 18/03/2018 19:47

Women don't want them. End of.

Ereshkigal · 18/03/2018 19:51

I've said all I've got to say re. domestic abuse shelters. Don't think the aggression was required.

I think it was. How dare you presume to decide what female victims of DV and rape should have to put up with just so you can virtue signal?

SimonBridges · 18/03/2018 19:52

I think there's a place for trans women to be excluded from some areas of things such as domestic abuse shelters

And this is the very nub of the problem.
If you say that trans women are women but not for refuges then you are saying that there is a difference between trans women and women.
TRA are saying that there is no difference and trans women should be entitled to everything that women are.

Ereshkigal · 18/03/2018 19:53

Shouldn't take away from being able to self-identify though.

You shouldn't be able to self identify. This is just one particularly important reason why not.

Ereshkigal · 18/03/2018 19:54

The fact that some people don't understand this demonstrates their unsuitability to be there.

Exactly.

Ereshkigal · 18/03/2018 19:55

Or to be involved in making decisions about it.

timberlumberjack · 18/03/2018 19:58

Okay, I'll rephrase. The aggression wasn't required. It's a hell of a selfless act to volunteer at a shelter, and it's a difficult job to work at one.

Some shelters have self-contained flats that people live in. If a woman is okay with a trans woman giving them assistance, it wouldn't impede on anyone else. If it's the type of shelter with private rooms instead, perhaps a different arrangement would be required. There's all sorts of ways to go about it without needlessly discriminating.

GabeIsShocking · 18/03/2018 20:00

Anyone got any snow?

boatyardblues · 18/03/2018 20:07

Wrong thread, Gabe?

Ihavesomeballs · 18/03/2018 20:15

timberlumberjack

For the love of god listen!! Abused women do not want men in their shelters......we don't want men in women's shelters.....got it.........they can get their feel goods else bastard ware!!