Women's Place meeting, Oxford - 25th April

[TerfyMcTerface]

Just spotted on Twitter that Women's Place are holding a meeting in Oxford next month. I don't think the tickets are on sale yet.

Is anyone on here going to go?

WomaninGreen I hadn't heard of the woman from the Dominican Republic and her talk was one of the most interesting to me.

It's definitely not pointless to attend without in depth knowledge. Each speaker clearly explained themselves.

I was talking to a young woman, who pointed at Debbie and Kristina and said 'they're the same as me'. I pointed out Debbie and Kristina's 'No we're not', and she answered 'I don't want a debate'.

couldn't get her to eat a biscuit either. she'd been shouting all evening, must have been ravenous.

For me, I went to the Cardiff WPUK alone and nervous, but having bought a ticket and wanting to be there.

There were complications when the original venue cancelled on the day because of heavy trolling by TRAs. Another venue was found, and we are all very grateful to that venue for standing up for free speech.

So people with cars volunteered to ferry those without cars from the original venue to the second one. All this meant that a lot of people got talking with each other, who may not have done so in the ordinary scheme of things! It was such an icebreaker!

Excellent speakers too. As I said, such a feeling of solidarity and warmth!

It was a brilliant meeting the speakers were all excellent each with their own spin on things. I learned a lot of things I didn't know which is usually a good thing but those things made me very sad. The more I learn about all this the more it seems that children are becoming victims of trans culture more and more. Trans kids suffer and nontranskids suffer too.

WomaninGreen definitely fine to go with little or even no knowledge

WomaninGreen

I agree. Go and listen. I've been to four, now and the speakers have all been diverse. The atmosphere is always brilliant.

My point about the Iranian football team is that if you are going to try and prevent a meeting from happening because you are so opposed to the content, you should, at least, have a notion of what the objections are.

Going to a meeting to support women and find out more, is completely different.

I'm so glad I went. The talk was interesting and there was lots of reference to research and policy. Real life examples of the safeguarding risks that are occurring right now with children in schools and clubs. It was balanced and there were lots of points I hadn't considered before.

It's definitely an issue for women to get involved in- as it will effect each and every one of us.

(Side note- I was offered a biscuit by a lovely lady in a pink shawl afterwards but I didn't get one! Next time!)

I'd been wondering what would happen if I brought my baby to a meeting. I'd hoped that the protesters might back off a bit but them threatening a mother & child tonight confirms what I'd feared. Hopefully there'll be a meeting near me once she's weaned. Part of me wants to go see what would happen, & film any abusive behaviour directed at us, but there's no way I could bring myself to deliberately take my baby into a crowd of angry people & risk anything more than verbal threats.

Great meeting. I learnt loads and am so glad I went. It was definitely suitable for a beginner such as myself. I met some very interesting and very pleasant people this evening.

It seems that the protesters turned up late and rapidly dwindled in numbers as the evening wore on. They were not masked, which was something I suppose. Having said that, it was certainly not at all pleasant to have to run the gauntlet of their angry chants at leaving time. Their protest was clearly designed to intimidate.

I think next I'm going to make an appointment with the headteacher of DD's primary school to discuss some of the issues arising from Stephanie's talk, and to find out what they teach currently about sex and gender.

It's funny, with the Cornwall meeting announced I had been wondering if I should/could bring my dd ( she's only 8 weeks atm so is fairly well behaved ) after watching the video from Bristol I, naively assumed that TAs wouldn't be stupid enough to aggressively intimidate women with young babies - the PR would be awful! But they really don't care. Another peak trans for me. I hope when the Cornwall meeting happens Iam brave enough to go....

The first thing I thought when I saw the photo was that these look like typical oxford students protesting about the next big issue (I've seen A LOT of Oxford protesters in my time). The fact that someone has reinforced this with the Iranian women's football team comment speaks volumes. There is such a large proportion of people who are backing the TRAs, who are seriously misinformed and who have been swept along with it all.

What can we do about this?! Aside from what we're already doing. Wouldn't it be great if we could have a calm debate with them without risk! You'd think that if they were in the right here that this is something that they'd welcome.

Trans activists are very successful at centring trans issues. I think proposed reforms to the GRA have highlighted some key issues that need thinking through. Trans rights intersect with these issues but that is only 1 part.

I would love the protesters to think through:

• when is/isn’t biology important in relation to being a women/female
• what are the pros and cons of having a category that is exclusively for females
• where same-sex provision is desirable/ the rationale underpinning the provision
• based on the answer to the above, which criteria should be used to determine access.

Very interested in the woman from the Dominican Republic's talk if it's going to be available online? There are real parallels with Ireland where we still don't have legal abortion (and the referendum is still uncertain) but we have self-id passed into law with hardly a word. There's a strong American influence, both in ideology and some well-placed Americans living here- if anyone read the infamous "English Terfs Out" letter, it was written on the behest of an American TIM who has only lived in Ireland a couple of years

Excellent informative meeting. Raquel Rosario Sanchez was particularly interesting, giving an international perspective.

Thanks to Sweary for arranging the meet-up beforehand - even if I was late and then had to dash off.

Favourite tweet about the protesters:-

"Seriously, it's quite hilarious how "intersectional woke queer transwomen of color" on Twitter turns into pasty white dudes IRL"

I walked out as they were shouting 'trans people are not the problem', well but where did we say that trans people are the problem I agree they are not specifically the problem! most people who were that room would agree! You don't address what's visible, the tip of the iceberg, and blithely ignore the great mass underneath. Just absurd when you get people turning up to protest something that they haven't done the minimum of research on.

Am going to a pro-TRA panel discussion in Ox soon and will see if WPUK/Feminist Current/Transgender Trend get mentioned, hope there'll be a Q&A session.

Seriously, it's quite hilarious how "intersectional woke queer transwomen of color" on Twitter turns into pasty white dudes IRL

also fab name Cunstance, love CCM!

It was so interesting talking to my daughter afterwards. She's 14, is active in her school's LGBT society and has several friends who identify as trans and of whom she's very protective. She's also fiercely feminist. I've talked to her quite a lot about the issues discussed last night, but wasn't sure how she'd react to the meeting.

She was hugely impressed by the speakers, and was particularly interested in (and recognised) what Stephanie was saying about young people and schools. Some of the points raised she found challenging, and she didn't agree with everything, but I think she got a lot out of the meeting and completely gets a) the need to balance women's and trans rights, and b) that the problem here is not feminists.

If only the shouty students outside were as open-minded...

FlorenceLyons

That is so heartening! Your daughter sounds fabulous. And feminist consciousness raising is so beneficial to girls and young women. I hate it that extremist transactivism is making it harder for them to access. WPUK is doing sterling work in this regard.

It's worth noting here for people who are considering going to these meetings in the future, that WPUK and We Need to Talk (Venice Allan) have different approaches.

Broadly they are are of the same mind. But WPUK don't want to repeal the GRA, they want to beef up the exemptions and have stated five questions that they would like answers to, the first one being a debate needs to be had.

We Need To Talk is more radical in its approach and that is reflected sometimes in the content.

I personally agree with both approaches, despite them being different. Either solution would be good.

But for people who have not been to a meeting yet, and are considering taking sceptical children or friends, WPUK provides a more measured approach.

That doesn't mean that they get targeted less by TRAs, although they do reserve a special vitriol towards Venice Allan because, I imagine, she is outspoken and unapologetic.

I was sat next to a young man who I suspect may identify as trans and from his body language was critical of the meeting. However, he listened and took notes. The only way it could have been better would be if he'd participated in the Q&A at the end. So I think there are young trans people out there thinking for themselves.

Or he was there to take quotes out of context and spin them as hatespeak.

That's what happened with the HoC meeting where Sheila's description of the parasitism of those lunatics who wear those body suits as part of their sexual fetish, was spun as her saying all transwomen are parasites.

It's what they do. Misrepresent what was actually said at meetings. It's a brilliant tactic. Dishonest but effective.

'They'?

See also "mumsnet want to introduce a trans section 28"...

Anyone who feels they can offer support privately or publicly to Oxford Quakers and the staff at their Meeting House - I think they need it today.

I've emailed [email protected] to say thank you for hosting the meeting.

Hi, I just joined mumsnet - i emailed Oxford Quakers last night to thank them for hosting WPUK - I saw some TA twitter noise encouraging exactly the opposite and took the address from there. Wasn't sure if it was helpful really as they're probably swamped :-( I feel really sad and cross if they're suffering now. I really hope they're not.