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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women's Place meeting, Oxford - 25th April

292 replies

TerfyMcTerface · 15/03/2018 21:23

Just spotted on Twitter that Women's Place are holding a meeting in Oxford next month. I don't think the tickets are on sale yet.

Is anyone on here going to go?

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LifelongVaginaOwner · 26/04/2018 12:27

I've emailed [email protected] to say thank you for hosting the meeting.

Great minds... me too

louiseaaa · 26/04/2018 12:33

I'm a Quaker and I'm going to bring this up in business on Sunday - to see if we can send a meeting - to - meeting solidarity message. Our meeting is aware of this issue/has talked about it already.

Beyond11cisRetinol · 26/04/2018 12:36

Louise, are you in a location that hasn't had a Wpuk meeting yet?

louiseaaa · 26/04/2018 12:39

I'm south of Birmingham which happened before I was aware the meetings were happening - otherwise I would have gone

Beyond11cisRetinol · 26/04/2018 12:43

Ah, I wondered if you might have been able to see if WP would organise one

cromeyellow0 · 26/04/2018 13:01

velourvoyageur
Am going to a pro-TRA panel discussion in Ox soon

Could you post details of this? I'd be curious to go along.

StarsAndWater · 26/04/2018 13:44

I can't help thinking that these protests are losing them support among their own supporters.
I could imagine myself as a student going along to protest a 'hate rally' and then seeing ordinary polite women turn up followed by men on my own side threatening a mother and child, and stating 'We don't care' when asked to keep it down as there was a sexual assault support group going on.
I probably wouldn't have said anything st the time - not after seeing threats- but I imagine I would have quietly slipped away and started looking into it in more detail.
I wonder how many of their fellow protesters look at the masks and threats and realise how much nonsense has been fed to them.

velourvoyageur · 26/04/2018 14:28

@cromeyellow0
'Trans panel: experiences and activism at Oxford', LMH, Friday 04/05, 6-7:30pm
Link: www.facebook.com/events/629570137378286/

stating 'We don't care' when asked to keep it down as there was a sexual assault support group going on Shock was this the case last night? fucking hell.

LifelongVaginaOwner · 26/04/2018 14:58

Oxford SU LGBTQ Campaign have been removing any comment on their Facebook statement that disagrees with them (except for some reason Miranda Yardley's). It's resulting in it reading really weirdly, as people have referred to other posters who no longer appear.
They really can't see how intolerant this is can they?

StarsAndWater · 26/04/2018 15:04

I believe so. Women's Place tweeted about it here:
twitter.com/Womans_Place_UK/status/989210420681560065?s=19

Acorninspring · 26/04/2018 16:50
  • @louiseaaa * I'd be interested in linking up if there is a safe way to do it. I'm more of a lurker than a poster though...
cromeyellow0 · 26/04/2018 17:25

Thanks velourvoyageur I will try to go along and hear their side (rather than screaming outside).

It might be interesting if they recognise me from the WPUK event ...

ReluctantCamper · 26/04/2018 18:02

Other things I've remembered from last night. Listening to a WPUK member talking to a protester: women have a right to penis free changing rooms

Protester: by your argument lesbians shouldn't be in women's changing rooms

WPUK woman (genuine reaction without missing a beat): Women aren't at risk from lesbians! Do you know how homophobic you sound?!

velourvoyageur · 26/04/2018 18:12

crome I mean I for one just hope we can manage to restrain ourselves from threatening any babies that might be accompanying attendees Confused I don't quite understand the thought process, do they not realise it makes them look a bit unhinged rather than winning anyone over to their POV...

I think the fact that the 'debate' is taking place on Twitter is a good part of the reason why interactions between younger TRAs and those they oppose have become so toxic. The production of empathy is just blocked if there is no face-to-face. Childless students especially I think are vulnerable to this - we haven't inevitably been exposed to the same wider range of perspectives, we haven't had the same breadth of social interaction as parents, or someone in their 30s+, so this sort of exaggerated solipsism becomes more likely. On Twitter you're not even presented with the opportunity to interact with someone as a person like yourself, but rather just with a name/avatar. You lose sight of the distinction between yourself (the physically embodied mind you're constantly aware of as you type) and other-as-a-self (can't see their body ergo can't see a mind) and so it's so much easier just to interact with them purely within the frame of 'something that reacts to you', that recoils when you prod it or bites when provoked, but otherwise doesn't really exist as someone in their own right. They are alive for you only insofar as they fit into your personal reality & what they are for you is shaped entirely by you. I don't think it's very safe, especially as we see that it then translates into real life.

I guess the blind loyalty may be this thing of - everyone else is X religion so there must be some sense in it, and I should pledge allegiance to it even if in the meantime I'm still figuring out exactly why it makes sense. TRAs know that if they make enough noise, many people listening will assume it's somehow warranted, because why else would you come and stand in the rain to shout at women?

Also I'm more than a bit concerned with the student representatives' seeming love affair with Action for Trans Health/Sisters Uncut - I keep hearing something or other at the uni is supporting it.
The SU leadership are clearly not interested in neutral representation of student interests, they're using Union resources to further their own personal political agenda.

(love that WPUK have tweeted about Delaunay today though, she def deserves more exposure than slightly soggy and overexcited TRAs!)

SummeryNights · 26/04/2018 18:26

The first thing I thought when I saw the photo was that these look like typical oxford students protesting about the next big issue (I've seen A LOT of Oxford protesters in my time)

Me too, when I saw them the other night. Most were regular students who like to protest. A friend who is pretty senior in one of the colleges very nearby walked me to the door, and recognised some of them as usual suspects who demo so loudly that noise complaints are raised by neighbours.

What was nice was that the venue was at the opposite end of the quaker garden, so we couldn't hear any of it, once inside.

Unlike the building I once worked in where I heard "Stop the Oxford animal lab" droan on all day for months.

OlennasWimple · 26/04/2018 18:27

Interesting that the protesters last night didn't cover their faces (at least from teh photos and video I've seen)

"Trans rights are not a debate"... (This is what they were chanting on the video on Jack Hunter's Twitter feed)

Apart from not really making sense ("Trans rights are not up for debate"? ), I've yet to see a meaningful answer to the question "what rights do trans people need that they do not already have?" Access to toilets / the Olympics / women's vaginas are not a right

IdentifiesAsMiddleAged · 26/04/2018 18:29

I've yet to see a meaningful answer to the question "what rights do trans people need that they do not already have?" Access to toilets / the Olympics / women's vaginas are not a right

That deserves repeating in bold.

ReluctantCamper · 26/04/2018 18:38

Oh yes, had forgotten that one of them told me 'women already have all the rights they need'.

thanks chum.

Ereshkigal · 26/04/2018 18:39

Wow!

ReluctantCamper · 26/04/2018 18:40

well access to a safe toilet is a right. That's kinda the point.

Wanderabout · 26/04/2018 18:45

Also I'm more than a bit concerned with the student representatives' seeming love affair with Action for Trans Health/Sisters Uncut - I keep hearing something or other at the uni is supporting it.
The SU leadership are clearly not interested in neutral representation of student interests, they're using Union resources to further their own personal political agenda.

Indeed. How many people influenced by that letter are aware that ATH's manifesto includes such batshit demands as:

"There will be no clinics, and no authorities. We will conduct our own research, and experiment with our own bodies. We will heal and grow together. We will accumulate knowledge and share it freely and accessibly. We demand nothing less than the total abolition of the clinic, of psychiatry, and of the medical-industrial complex. We demand an end to capitalist & colonialist “medicine”."

And the release of all trans prisoners.

Wanderabout · 26/04/2018 18:47

Agree with ReluctantCamper that access to safe toilets should be a right for all.

Also to fairly compete in sport should be supported as best as possible for all.

That includes women.

ReluctantCamper · 26/04/2018 18:47

mmm, I definitely think Action For Trans Health should get all the publicity they want. Them and India Willoughby.

Really, hog the spot light people, knock yourselves out.

Ereshkigal · 26/04/2018 18:49

Yes. If ATH want to publish their manifesto in a national tabloid newspaper I'll certainly contribute to the crowdfund!

xxmarksthespot · 26/04/2018 19:15

well access to a safe toilet is a right. That's kinda the point.

perfectly safe for transwomen to use the men's

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