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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women's Place meeting, Oxford - 25th April

292 replies

TerfyMcTerface · 15/03/2018 21:23

Just spotted on Twitter that Women's Place are holding a meeting in Oxford next month. I don't think the tickets are on sale yet.

Is anyone on here going to go?

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ReluctantCamper · 26/04/2018 19:20

absolutely xxmarksthespot.

SunsetBeetch · 26/04/2018 21:45

Magdalen's new video with Posie is now on YouTube

twitter.com/MagdalenBerns/status/989594056534654976?s=19

OlennasWimple · 26/04/2018 22:46

Short write up of the clash in the Telegraph

cromeyellow0 · 26/04/2018 23:52

Quakers have been caught in the crossfire of a transgender row after hosting a “transphobic” feminist meeting in Oxford.

The meeting organised by A Woman's Place UK (WPUK), which was met by protesters from Oxford University, has prompted a wave of criticism towards the Quakers.

The Student's Union had called on the Quakers to cancel the event which took place on Wednesday night after writing an open letter condemning the meeting.

The event did go ahead, however Oxford Quakers have now revealed they are going to consider changes to their policy after protesters gathered outside the venue.

Denouncing the meeting in a public statement issued by Oxford Student’s Union LGBTQ Campaign, they said: “This event is predominantly about curtailing transgender people’s rights, and invites exclusively cisgender people to speak on this … This kind of trans-exclusionary feminism cannot be condoned.”

The hosting of these events has been regularly criticised as WPUK has faced several accusations of anti-trans behaviour in recent months.

One attendee of the meeting tweeted: 'I brought biscuits for the protesters at #WPUK'
One attendee of the meeting tweeted: 'I brought biscuits for the protesters at #WPUK'
In one instance the group had to relocate their meeting after pressure from opposers led to a hotel cancelling the session.

WPUK have been labelled as Terfs (trans-exclusionary radical feminists) and their critics have now voiced their concerns about Quakers, who held a separate meeting for WPUK in Manchester in January.

Adam tweeted: “Sadly it's not the first time the Quakers have hosted transphobes. I really hoped the Quaker faith community would be allies to trans people in the UK but it seems not to be the case.”

Martin Newman added: “The news that the Oxford Meeting House is this evening hosting a transphobic organisation is incredibly disappointing to me.

“Correct me if i'm wrong but transphobia is against everything I thought the Quakers stood for, do you have any comment on the Oxford meeting house booking this event and then not listening to trans activists' reasonable concerns?”

In response to the criticism, an Oxford Quakers spokeswoman said that Quakers believe in peace and honesty and said it was hoped that “both sides in this debate, who hold passionate views, will engage together in peace and mutual respect.”

She said: “There were other meetings in our premises that evening, three of which involved vulnerable adults. The Clerk of the meeting asked the demonstrators not to harass people coming into the building. We are disappointed that the demonstrators did not immediately heed this request.”

The spokeswoman added that following the attention which the meeting received they are to consider “whether any changes in policies are required.”

Helen Drewery, head of witness and worship for Quakers in Britain said: “There are Quakers on both sides of this situation and we acknowledge feelings are running high. We want to provide space for free and honest discussion to enable understanding.”

Following the meeting, a spokeswoman for WPUK thanked everyone for their attendance “in the face of these threats and intimidation”, adding: “A special thanks to the local organisers and Oxford Quakers for enabling our respectful discussion to take place.”

A statement from The University of Oxford Student Union said: "We firmly oppose discrimination/harassment on the basis of gender identity. As such, we chose to co-sign statement to challenge groups, such as a Women's Place UK, and stand as a united community against hate speech.

"Oxford SU recognises and supports the right of students to protest peacefully, as a tool in calling for change."

cromeyellow0 · 26/04/2018 23:57

Terrible article. No quotes from WPUK which violates basic journalistic principles. Repeats transactivist lie that WPUK "invites exclusively cisgender people to speak".

whitehandledkitchenknife · 27/04/2018 00:08

Some of us left via the back exit and looped back to the front of the venue to have a look at the protesters from the street. I stopped to read the banners, whereupon the following exchange took place:

Protester: There's a hate meeting going on in there.
Me: Really? What about?
Protester: They're meeting to spread hate about transpeople.
Me: REALLY? Have you been to a meeting?
Protester: I've seen excerpts on Youtube.
Me: But have you been to a meeting?
Protester: My friend has.
Me: Have you been to a meeting?
Protester: No. As a trans woman,I'm frightened that I'll be beaten up by the likes of you.
Me: Wow!

Reader, I am a broad of beam, middle-aged woman with a dodgy hip and arthriticky fingers.

I fear for the protesters general lack of a grasp on reality.

PS: Thanks Sweary for the badge and organising the pub meet up.

It was another inspirational meeting with great speakers.

Well done and thank you WPUK.

SwearyGodPervert · 27/04/2018 00:42

I’m pretty fucking furious that TMG are using my photo in their transphobia “article”. We’ve been very good to them about their Brexit lies (after we got a copy of the report they commissioned re Brexit being a disaster yet they backed it anyway). Wankers.

Wanderabout · 27/04/2018 00:43

Very surprised Francesca Marshall didn't do some basic research for that article.

There were transwomen at the meeting who tweeted about being there that completely contradict the quotes she has e.g.

Thank you @WomansPlaceUK all the participants & attendees at the #Oxford meeting last night. I was proud to be associated with it as a trans ally. So surreal to step out from a rational, respectful, educational meeting on women’s rights through a crowd accusing us of hate
mobile.twitter.com/KJ_Harrison/status/989416254715899904

She has completely missed the freedom of speech angle. Politicians, mumsnet and universities have spoken up against intimidation of venues and the attempt to use 'transphobia' as a catch all shut down term for concerns about the impact on women and girls.

And doesn't mention the issue of single sex spaces being under threat - I am sure many. Telegraph readers would want to read about the possible impacts on single sex wards, or the fact their daughters in guides may be sleeping in a mixed sex tent without their knowledge.

Really shoddy journalism on this reporter's part. It reads like it was taken straight from a press release from the student's union (which I suspect it might have been).

Wanderabout · 27/04/2018 00:47

Sweary your biscuits photo is great - it doesn't really fit with the fiction of a 'hate group'

I presume they got it from twitter and didn't speak to you directly?

Did they speak to anyone from a WPUK does anyone know?

SwearyGodPervert · 27/04/2018 00:56

Nope no permissions. News desk were less than helpful.

Honestly the Telegraph has turned into a tabloid of late. It’s a shame, it used to be pretty decent. Francesca Marshall will be answering some questions in the morning. I am pretty fucking cross.

xxmarksthespot · 27/04/2018 08:51

This event is predominantly about curtailing transgender people’s rights

LIARS

transphobes - transphobic - transphobia

These words have no meaning. Thrown about like confetti by the TRAs and deliberately reported on without question by the press.

Wanderabout · 27/04/2018 09:03

The piece has missed a big chunk of the story and hasn't let WPUK or any trans people explain that the event about promoting respectful debate about retaining women's rights. It is a complex issue - worth anyone at the event who found it respectful and informative emailing the editor to share the other side of the story and why you attended.

Wanderabout · 27/04/2018 09:06

Janice Turner's recent piece in the Times is worth referring to and quoting from:

How do you debate when one side believes no debate can exist, that to ask questions is hate speech and must be silenced even with force?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-activists-think-debate-is-hate-speech-hsh7vpmzt

BeyondParody · 27/04/2018 09:13

Hopefully wp are on the case to get a statement added as we speak... 😬

R0wantrees · 27/04/2018 09:51

Protester: I've seen excerpts on Youtube.
Me: But have you been to a meeting?
Protester: My friend has.
Me: Have you been to a meeting?
Protester: No. As a trans woman,I'm frightened that I'll be beaten up by the likes of you.
Me: Wow!

  • there has been a powerful narrative created by some TRAs that women involved with WPUK etc are 'carrying baseball bats, want to 'doxx' children, seek to eradicate people who are transgender whom they view as 'parasites', encouraging their rape and suicide etc'

Due to the mass blocks on twitter etc, these beliefs have bounced around, often unchallenged and been absorbed by many, especially within the LGBT+ community.

The crucial issue is to identify how this narrative has been created & by whom and to understand the very serious consequences of this.

R0wantrees · 27/04/2018 10:00

for example, the video linked to here...

twitter.com/mimmymum/status/989603407672553472

Women's Place meeting,  Oxford - 25th April
SwearyGodPervert · 27/04/2018 10:08

I don’t get how anyone believes that snippet they show of Anne. She clearly says these are....bastards. And the text says she’s saying Trans people....bastards. Surely if she had said that they would link her saying trans people.

It really shows that the people who believe and share such rot are hard of thinking. The problem is that hard of thinking seems to be more common than not these days.

Ereshkigal · 27/04/2018 10:18

She was talking about transactivists in the specific context of what they were doing.

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 27/04/2018 10:24

On another note, Anne and Julia look really happy together
twitter.com/sargesalute/status/989639412219826178

Molleroo · 27/04/2018 10:34

'The crucial issue is to identify how this narrative has been created & by whom and to understand the very serious consequences of this.'

I agree - I think a big problem is that 'trans activists' to the uninitiated sounds logically like people fighting for trans rights - there IS 'transphobia,' and it can be horrendous, but it's mostly men bullying and humiliating trans people. I used to look a lot like a boy in my youth and I got a LOT of that. But that's not what this is about at all. Maybe we need a new name for them? I always make an explicit distinction when I'm talking about this between trans people, whose rights I would defend, and trans activists, who do seem to me to mostly be very confused young people and misogynistic bastards - as Anne Ruzylo identified in that video linked above. I think the former are being co-opted by the latter.

R0wantrees · 27/04/2018 10:54

Link to Anne's full and unedited speech.

R0wantrees · 27/04/2018 11:04

at 11:50 into the video above Anne makes very clear with nuance her use of terminology.

Wanderabout · 27/04/2018 12:32

The student publication reporting this puts that article by Francesca Marshall to shame. They spoke to both sides and reported on it. Still spun for the student protestor side in the headline, picture, which view comes first etc. But decent enough news reporting and research done on the two different sides of the debate:

cherwell.org/2018/04/27/students-protest-transphobic-womens-group/

SwearyGodPervert · 27/04/2018 12:48

The student reporters have done a pretty decent job, aside from spelling almost everyone’s name wrong Smile

They were actually very respectful and almost nervous speaking to us. I think they weren’t sure what they were up against because of all the nonsense shared by the OUSU before we met. I hope they were pleasantly surprised by a bunch of middle aged women being polite and pleasant.

20nil · 27/04/2018 12:56

Yes, really quite balanced. Great.

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