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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Paris Lees just been hugely dissed live on TV

182 replies

Wobbleslikeaweeble · 15/03/2018 10:23

Ok sounds gossipy but PL is on the Wright Stuff right now and disagreed with Anne whatshername from the chase and Anne just said “you should know you used to be a boy” - huge Awkward silence.

Tbh, I don’t like Anne and her reply to Lees was harsh and unnecessary. I really don’t like PLs either to be clear. It was quite a 😱 moment.

OP posts:
DeleteOrDecay · 20/03/2018 09:03

*Immediately after the show ended Matthew was summoned to a 'crisis' meeting with Channel 5 honchos, who were ' terrified 'by the spectre of a Twitter backlash from the trans community.
*
Good lord talk about over reacting. Good on MW for pointing out the ridiculousness of it all. Shame that Anne probably won't be on the show again.

Jayceedove · 20/03/2018 13:58

I do think it is true that there is some blame on all three sides here.

But what for years has been a well recognised and studied medical problem involving 0.01% (one in ten thousand) people around the world has somehow been hijacked over the past five years or so by several factions.

This seems to be because of the chinks of access they have seen with both the GRA - though that was law for a decade before this took off so less important than most think here I believe - and, more importantly, the Equality Act, as it was passed just before this really all got serious and actually is where the key issues of access and denial of access are defined.

So, yes, those involved in gender politics on both sides of the debate have realised there is a battle that could define the future of modern civilisation. And I agree that there is because self defining gender would have implications well beyond transgender activists. It would recast all of how everybody thinks.

Some of that may prove to be good for women, but some will definitely not. And, of course, it is true that some powerful forces out there - such as news barons - have sensed that and joined the debate in a desire to influence it and get sales off the back of it.

So there is a lot going on here and I am not diminishing its significance at all because it is obvious to see how fundamentally it will effect women - even those not aware of that fact yet.

However, oddly, very little of this really has anything to do with that core transsexual population - the 0.01% - although we are caught very firmly in almost everybody's cross hairs as a result of it.

A few of us are slowly waking up to that because as a small, unstructured group of people usually living quietly and without any leaders or community, we have generally not seen this bubbling antipathy as being framed around us. But as some odd people out there that are seemingly as baffling to us as they are to you.

One huge problem is the creation in America of the term transgender to cover such a vast swathe of gender non conformity that the very different and physically transitioned basis of the small transsexual community has become swallowed up and lost inside.

As you can see from the figures above - we are maybe 5000 or so in the UK in a population of 65 million. Or a bit more if you add the ones not legally registered (though most who are transsexual will if they can for obvious reasons of protection).

And the transgender community - many of whom just want to self identify, express themselves in a rag tag list of gender identities - from pangender to gender fluid to agender (I don't know or understand what most of the 22 gender terms they have 'identified' mean any more than you either) - well they are seemingly 120 times bigger as a group and extremely active and litigious!

So we have disappeared to the point of irrelevance and because of our desire just to get on with life and make no demands as has been the case for half a century did not even notice what was going on until recently like many of you did.

We had been brought up being told that our medical diagnosis was transsexual - because we knew we had a physical body of one sex but believed innately for some reason that this mismatched with our inner sense of what it should be. It was not about expression or toys or clothes and just a kind of split personality.

As such we knew it was obviously something wrong somewhere inside of us because we understand reality and were not seeking to redefine it.

We went to doctors for help and the only successful cure they had - or still have - was physical transition to the maximum science could achieve, never enough, never actual biological transition, but which is improving all the time.

Indeed the first transsexual woman is expected to give birth before 2030 according to experts in this area. And breast feeding by trans women has been possible to increasing degrees for a while but is not practised yet by us voluntarily out of concern it might harm the baby until an ongoing study is completed into the potential risks.

We awoke to the row exploding all around us slowly over the last 2 - 3 years and have discovered the term transsexual has been replaced by transgender as it has to cover all those who just want to express themselves differently and dress and act as they choose. Because 'they are trans too and deserve the same recognition'.

This year the term transsexual was even officially removed.

Well, those of us so diagnosed over the past 50 years have started to reclaim it because we think the distinction is important. So you will see it used over and over on here and when you do this is why.

I think the difference will be quite easy for you to spot.

If a person has taken major steps to modify their body as far as science allows, or their own state of health allows, whilst recognising that this has not changed our biological sex (indeed we had to sign medical waivers confirming we understood that before surgery was allowed), and then has just got on with life happily and does not make demands of anyone about what words mean what or how it is possible to be a woman in possession of a functioning penis (a dangerously ludicrous statement) and is willing to work with you to enforce intimate same sex spaces because we do understand the reasons they have been protected within the laws - then they are almost certainly transsexual. Not 'transgender'.

And if they believe it is not necessary to look, act,or have any features of a woman and only need fill out a form and declare that and have the right to flip flop back as they choose and the rest of you should call them what they tell you and you should call yourself cis (insulting and pointless when the difference is already clear as you are trans or not trans) and that access to all spaces should be automatic on demand without having to have any kind of assessment or medical investigation or need to provide any evidence of long term persistence or permanence or ability to integrate successfully and usefully into society for two years without any residual negative effects on their mental health - and if they bypass all those existing rules to get recognised because they 'choose not to on principle' and just say 'I am a woman' and if you disagree then you are a bigot and they will run to the police.....well they are probably transgender.

Mouthtrousersafrocknowandthen · 20/03/2018 14:06

Jayceedove
Flowers

sillage · 20/03/2018 14:17

This entire freakshow was intentionally set up to show how much more "womanly" makeup-slathered female mimic Paris is than old mannish harridan Anne.

Arkengarthdale · 20/03/2018 14:32

Jayceedove what a brilliant post!

LizzieSiddal · 20/03/2018 14:43

Jacee Flowers
I think many(but not all) women would agree with you. I certainly do.
Bring back the word Transexual and it cuts out a lot of confusion.

Jayceedove · 20/03/2018 14:51

Thank you. I know that I am far from the only one who would say something not too dissimilar and I hope some are brave enough to do so. As, of course, I know that I will not be welcomed out there for saying this. But all you can ever really be is true to yourself.

LostArt · 20/03/2018 14:57

"i do think it is true that there is some blame on all three sides here"

What are the three sides?

CadyHeron · 20/03/2018 15:58

Jaycee - great post,and completely agree with you.

I think many(but not all) women would agree with you. I certainly do.
Same.
It's the whole denying biology and sex, categorising and othering women into boxes to make way for feels and gender instead that I think is worrying and needs challenging.

derxa · 20/03/2018 16:59

This entire freakshow was intentionally set up to show how much more "womanly" makeup-slathered female mimic Paris is than old mannish harridan Anne. I think you could well be right.

Putyourdamnshoeson · 20/03/2018 17:07

Bet Anne doesn't brag about being able to sit on (or rather engulf) a traffic cone.

Mouthtrousersafrocknowandthen · 20/03/2018 17:56

The three sides are violent and/or sex fetish men, transsexuals and women. In no particular order.

The missing link is the men in charge of us all, they seem to be listening to the sex fetish men and mixing them up with the transsexuals.

Pratchet · 20/03/2018 17:59

Word is there was a deliberate effort to change 'transexual' into 'transgender' so that children could be roped in. No one would accept a transexual child. But transgender kids? They throw parties for them.

LostArt · 20/03/2018 18:01

And people on here think women are partially to blame? Confused

olddogsnewtricks · 20/03/2018 18:01

OK. Feel free to shout at me but I don't understand the problem here (and I don't know who PL is). How is it offensive to say that someone used to be a man if that is the truth? Surely that is the opposite of offensive? It is tacitly saying that now they are a woman! You can't rewrite the past and why would you want to? Confused

Pratchet · 20/03/2018 18:03

Sorry, I don't. Was that for me? No I blame powerful men who engineered a backlash against feminism.

Mouthtrousersafrocknowandthen · 20/03/2018 18:04

The sex fetish men have done a Jimmy Saville on us all. No one must mention the fucking crazy shit.

LostArt · 20/03/2018 18:05

Jaycee said "I do think it is true that there is some blame on all three sides here."

And posters were saying they agreed with the post.

peacheachpearplum · 20/03/2018 18:13

I don't know why she needed to say it, surely man/woman trans or not you can have an opinion? It sounds like she was just annoyed that they had different opinions, wouldn't it be a boring programme if they all just sat round saying they agreed? I've never watched it so don't know.

Pratchet · 20/03/2018 18:14

Oh no, I disagree with that. Women are guilty only of being too nice for too long.

peacheachpearplum · 20/03/2018 18:15

OK. Feel free to shout at me but I don't understand the problem here (and I don't know who PL is). How is it offensive to say that someone used to be a man if that is the truth? Surely that is the opposite of offensive? It is tacitly saying that now they are a woman! You can't rewrite the past and why would you want to? The OP says she said PL used to be a boy, well so did my husband but he isn't a woman now.

Mouthtrousersafrocknowandthen · 20/03/2018 18:17

The backlash against feminism is the backlash against the left by right wingers like Steve Bannon. They hate inclusive politics because its too expensive, the state is too big.

Abuse/porn/ID politics has all boomed under the guise of left liberalism when in fact most of it is apolitical and venal. Men care little about other men's sexual behaviour towards women so it has to get uber bad before they do anything.

Even then they won't blame the men, cos they don't want the blame when it's their turn. Feminism can be blamed however because we always take the shit.

olddogsnewtricks · 20/03/2018 18:19

@peach - if you say someone "used to be" a boy, it does suggest that they are no longer a boy - I suppose this could be because they are now a man, but not necessarily. In any case, I don't see why it is offensive.

Mouthtrousersafrocknowandthen · 20/03/2018 18:21

Blame on the side on women? Blame is a terrible word. Wouldn't use it myself.

We are struggling with a lot of women that think we are wrong?

peacheachpearplum · 20/03/2018 18:30

olddogsnewtricks, my husband is no longer a boy, PL is no longer a boy. You said that implied PL is now a woman, I was just pointing out it doesn't imply that at all, it just states that she is no longer a boy which is equally true for my husband and he definitely isn't a woman.

My husband might find it offensive as he is getting old and would quite like to be a boy again. PL might find it offensive as it reminds her of a difficult time in her life. On the other hand neither of them might find it offensive, we can't really dictate to people how they should feel about something.

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