Is choosing to be a SAHM a feminist decision?

[user1471506568]

Ok so I'm a SAHM and would also strongly identify as a radical feminist although admittedly I still am learning about all of this. I understand that liberal feminism is more about the individual as opposed to the class movement so under that philosophy being a SAHM is an acceptable feminist decision but I'm confused about the rad fem stance.

I can see how from a financial perspective being a SAHM is a bit of a backward step for feminism, but this is such a narrow view and I don't think money is the only measure of worth . In fact it strikes me as an extremely patriarchal measure where the balance will always be tipped to men earning more due to women having children.

I would be really interested in people's views on this. Can I be a radical feminist and a SAHM or am I letting down the class movement?

NB: Please don't take this as negative judgement of any working mothers as I respect everyone's decision to do what's best for them.

Lass as I said, by reducing her and her families consumption which is a step against patriarchal capitalism. She is also not being exploited as an employee by the patriarchal capitalist system.

Good question and the answer is i treat them the same. I have no interest in men who have a woman at home enabling them to perpetuate a patriarchal society. I much prefer to converse with men whose wives or partners work and they themselves take 50 percent of the childcare.

So how do you propose to change the existing patriarchal capitalist mindset if you never speak to and change the minds of people, who, in your eyes support it?

She can reduce her collusion with the patriarchal capitalist system by reducing consumption of paid goods and services for her and her family. Allowing them to live on a reduced, single, income

What this means is that , for example, in my situation I could have stayed at home and my husband and I could have dispensed with a nanny, a cleaner and a gardener because employing them is "colluding with the capitalist system".

Not working outside the home would presumably free up my time to grow vegetables, make our own clothes and bake bread- I might even keep our own hens and goats- even less collusion in the capitalist system.

Doing this would of course all be timed after husband and I had made some sound investments in the property market when mortgages were cheap and easy and taking advantage of a relocation package- because the last part isn't colluding with the capitalist system.

My addressing the younger generation lilting. Not the ones who already Try to benefit from it.

Not working outside the home would presumably free up my time to grow vegetables, make our own clothes and bake bread- I might even keep our own hens and goats- even less collusion in the capitalist system

Yes totally. Whilst ignoring the fact the Male is out there working and making money, unhindered by the requirement for child care. Just like it has been for centuries.

But hey if you're growing your own veggies, that's alright then.

Lass as I said, by reducing her and her families consumption which is a step against patriarchal capitalism. She is also not being exploited as an employee by the patriarchal capitalist system

I am not sure what point you are replying to but this is just more Marxist claptrap.

I also don't understand why you keep referring to capitalism. I have no issue with capitalism and this thread is not about capitalism. It's about a patriarchal society.

Is this why your argument is about consumption, as you're confused as to thr thread topic and thr difference between capitalism and a patriarchal society.

Capitalism is not directly correlated to gender. I guess you're you've heard of Margaret thatcher?

Yes totally. Whilst ignoring the fact the Male is out there working and making money, unhindered by the requirement for child care. Just like it has been for centuries

Yeah, funny that. I'm colluding with the capitalist system yet my husband is just following the natural order and providing for his family. Really why bother educating women at all beyond basic reading and writing?

Lass yes, all we need is to know how to grow vegetables and take care of our babies.

Lilting, your argument is confused. You're argument that you're reducing capitalism by reducing your conseumerism works. It does not work in context of changing a patriarchal society, when to do this, you need your man to go out there in a patriachy society to work and provide for you, whilst you take care of the kids to smooth his progress and make his life easier.

Our current capitalist system is a patriarchal system. Challenging capitalism, in this context, is challenging the patriarchy.

Consider if a woman lived on a pretty much self sufficient feminist commune, would they be seen as radically feminist or not?

lilting you are off again down the backroads of the patriarchy. Male entitlement and not facilitating it at women’s expense, that is at the core of attacking the patriarchy. Baking bread and growing your own may attack capitalism but it has feck all affect on patriarchal structures.

Our current capitalist system is a patriarchal system. Challenging capitalism, in this context, is challenging the patriarchy

The assumption there is that if it wasn't a patriachy it wouldn't be capitalist, and we'd all be some Marxist socialist. I don't agree with you, i don't want that society. Not even slightly. in addition your argument is illogical again, because the way to change that, if you really believed it, would be to work within it to remove the patriachy, not send your husband out to work in it and you stay home spending his money. Growing your own vegetables is not challenging the patriachy.

And yes if a single woman was self sufficient, or worked,she could claim to be rad fem, if however she sends her man out to work on it, whilst she looks after the kids for him, then no, clearly not so much,🤣

Not working outside the home would presumably free up my time to grow vegetables, make our own clothes and bake bread- I might even keep our own hens and goats- even less collusion in the capitalist system.

Doing this would of course all be timed after husband and I had made some sound investments in the property market when mortgages were cheap and easy and taking advantage of a relocation package- because the last part isn't colluding with the capitalist system.

I think this would make a great idea for a sit-com.

I'd also say if a man and a woman did not work and were totally self sufficient, the woman could also claim to be rad fem. the issue is when she enables her husband to go work in that patriarchal society at the expense of her own career, she also ensures he has an advantage over working mothers in that parriacty by taking care of the kids, then she cannot be radically feminist. Liberal. Yes. But not radical.

I don’t see how a small amount of women managing to have a high flying career and a family is dismantling the patriarchy or radical feminist in itself? Does Teresa May do this? To have true equality we need women from all walks of life to be valued and respected and that includes sahm.

I saw leafs remark several 100 posts back as a retaliation to a poster making it wohm v sahm. Give it a rest!

The assumption there is that if it wasn't a patriachy it wouldn't be capitalist, and we'd all be some Marxist socialist

No. Matriarchal or ones where the sexes have equal opportunities capitalist societies could exist. This is not one, though.

And yes if a single woman was self sufficient, or worked,she could claim to be rad fem, if however she sends her man out to work on it, whilst she looks after the kids for him, then no, clearly not so much,🤣

How many feminists are totally self sufficient? My point is that we are all compromised by degrees, in a patriarchal capitalist society, including women who work in paid employment. I don't just look after my D.C. for my husband, I do it for all of us. Including you because my D.C. is part of the future generation.

I don’t see how a small amount of women managing to have a high flying career and a family is dismantling the patriarchy or radical feminist in itself? Does Teresa May do this? To have true equality we need women from all walks of life to be valued and respected and that includes sahm.

I agree, Handbag. Thank you.

I don’t see how a small amount of women managing to have a high flying career and a family is dismantling the patriarchy or radical feminist in itself

This is the point, this is radical feminism. That society needs radically realtering. Why is it a small amount of women? Why should it not be fifty fifty between the genders? Why should we not be equal? By walking away from your career as a woman, by ensuring your husbands is smooth, you make sure it remains a small amount of women, you are one less who evens up thr score. And one more woman who ensures another man makes it.

I thought liberal feminism was trying to change the patriarchy from the inside whereas radical feminism is ripping it up and starting again. Even though I’m a terrible sahm I see myself as radical as I don’t think the systems we have are right for most individuals or society in general. It’s hard to walk the talk when you’re made redundant on mat leave. Perhaps me setting my own business up is radical as I own the means of production. Or maybe I’m a wanky mumpreneur who needs to go out and get a proper job? Who knows

I don’t see how a small amount of women managing to have a high flying career and a family is dismantling the patriarchy or radical feminist in itself? Does Teresa May do this? To have true equality we need women from all walks of life to be valued and respected and that includes sahm.

Nobody has suggested that the patriarchy has already been dismantled on this thread
That is a radical feminist aspiration. Equality of the sexes assumes that men and women are given the same opportunities under the same social limitations, ie one sex is not disadvantaged by the other. The whole notion of radical feminism is to stop the structures that advantage men over women. While I think you can be a SAHM now and support those ideals while not living them currently yourself, I genuinely do see how you can look for that to be the way for the future as a rad fem without hoping that SAHP becomes equally the preserve of men and women or that women and men work and parent more equally.

No liberal is about the individual, it's saying women should have the freedom to chose, and seek their own equality what ever that may be.

Radical is about society, it's about saying we need to restructure to remove the patriachy and work together as women for that goal.

radical feminism is ripping it up and starting again

What are you doing to rip it up HandbagKrabby?

you don't have to be a SAHM to be colluding with the patriarchy and facilitating men's careers

I manage to work and do all that as well.

By walking away from your career as a woman, by ensuring your husbands is smooth, you make sure it remains a small amount of women, you are one less who evens up thr score. And one more woman who ensures another man makes it.

Many women who SAHP choose to walk away from their careers because they are not compatible with raising children (no flexibility or family friendly working practices). They choose not to juggle because they see that as detrimental to their own and their family's health and well-being. You could say they are the victims of the patriarchy, although they may feel they have made a good choice and are successful in it. Would you regard somewhat who fits the profile of a victim of a crime as someone who perpetuates crime? No. Exactly. Then why consider SAHMs to be perpetuating patriarchy?