Is choosing to be a SAHM a feminist decision?

[user1471506568]

Ok so I'm a SAHM and would also strongly identify as a radical feminist although admittedly I still am learning about all of this. I understand that liberal feminism is more about the individual as opposed to the class movement so under that philosophy being a SAHM is an acceptable feminist decision but I'm confused about the rad fem stance.

I can see how from a financial perspective being a SAHM is a bit of a backward step for feminism, but this is such a narrow view and I don't think money is the only measure of worth . In fact it strikes me as an extremely patriarchal measure where the balance will always be tipped to men earning more due to women having children.

I would be really interested in people's views on this. Can I be a radical feminist and a SAHM or am I letting down the class movement?

NB: Please don't take this as negative judgement of any working mothers as I respect everyone's decision to do what's best for them.

Anyone else with a view is being told they are exploitative .

Because everyone, in a capitalist patriarchy, by default, colludes with exploitation of women. Whether they like it or not.

It was an observation in relation to the mechanisms of patriarchal capitalism. It was primarily aimed at questioning who are qualified to call themselves a 'radical feminist' ?

Your points are completely illogical. The issue of who is or isn't a radical feminist is utterly irrelevant to your sexist and offensive comments that women paying for childcare and domestic care is exploitation.

On this thread there is (1) a theoretical debate for those who are interested in what constitutes a radical feminist position and (b) random , unconnected insults thrown out by you against all women paying for childcare.

Because everyone, in a capitalist patriarchy, by default, colludes with exploitation of women. Whether they like it or not

So basically you are arguing Marxist claptrap.

I'm a feminist and I would love to be a SAHM now (not with a pre-schooler). I can't afford it though. When you are a single mum it isn't possible to be a SAHM, you can only be a single mum on benefits, i.e. the lowest of the low in the eyes of the patriarchy.

I remember watching a documentary about high class call girls and the dad of one of the prostitutes saying that he was happy with her career choice, "at least she's not a single mum".

Wow Bluntness this shocks and disgusts me:

I am maybe even worse than I make out, because when I meet the wives who don't work of my male colleagues, and I know the family situation, I am smiley polite and walk away. I don't invest any more time with them than I need to to not cause offence

On what planet is this civil let alone feminist? You smile politely and move on without even engaging properly or hearing what they may have to say, all because they have the cheek to be SAHMs and in your view this upholds an element of the patriarchy

Well I hope you also walk away from others who are letting the side down. What about those annoying women that choose to work flexibily or god forbid part time so they can see their family more? I expect you only have time for the right kind of woman that puts in at least a 50 hour week to optimise their career potential. What about women who have not chosen careers in well paid STEM fields but have opted for less well paid jobs that they find fulfilling and society needs? Definitely best avoid them. What about women that don't take the opportunity to be promoted as they don't think the trade off is worth it for their work-life balance? Can't they see they're letting the side down too? Basically I hope you show the same disdain to all women that aren't walking the walk as far as furthering women in the workplace or is this just reserved for those silly SAHMs or specifically those women that have chosen to be SAHMs

After all we obviously need to hold our husband's hand in order to buy a car and are just plastic feminists. When we re-enter the workforce do we get our feminist badge back and get to buy our own car?

Maybe if you did spend more time with SAHMs you wouldn't have such a terrible perception of them and would see that things aren't quite as black and white as you perceive them to be. Radical feminism does not have to be working within the patriarchal rules currently in place go benefit women. It can be me even more radical than that. Being a SAHM is not necessarily a regressive step for women if you reject the current order of society, we are not talking about reverting back to the 1950s at all. I think some posters are just so hung up on the fact that SAHMs were encouraged by the patriarchy 50 years ago they can't see that that was just one antifeminist incarnation of the role.

So basically you are arguing Marxist claptrap

Agreed

I take it lilting that you make your own clothes,grow your own food,are off grid,cut your own hair ?

Short of living in isolation, up a hill in a yurt with no services and being entirely self sufficient we all rely on the services of others whether we SAH or WOH.
Constantly telling ither women they are exploitative when by your standards you are too is not a great argument.
We need to change the rhetoric and involve men in "female "roles not bash other women for doing something different to us.

I don't agree

We need to change the rhetoric and involve men in "female "roles not bash other women for doing something different to us.

Entirely my point.

Posters claiming to be rad fem, who use their employment to supposedly support their claim whilst simultaneously critiquing women who have decided to SAHP, infantising them and minimising the value of the skills and knowledge in their work, blaming them for perpetuating patriarchal values, are essentially, primarily, simply bashing women for making a choice different from their own, IMO. Self validation. Ironically, when fed a bit of their own medicine, that is when working outside the home is critiqued in terms of radical feminism, this is deemed 'offensive'. Women should absolutely support each other instead.

So basically you are arguing Marxist claptrap

No, just pointing out some Marxist observations are relevant in terms of radical feminism. I'm not the first to observe this. I'm not a Marxist but think the ideology make some pertinent observations with regards to how capitalism operates.

That should say, I don't agree, Lass. Typo omission.

Posters claiming to be rad fem

I’m a liberal feminist. I’m pretty sure neither Dione or Lass would discribe themselves as rad fems.

Ironically, when fed a bit of their own medicine, that is when working outside the home is critiqued in terms of radical feminism

You didn’t do that though. As lass said it was all Marxist claptrap.

I take it lilting that you make your own clothes,grow your own food,are off grid,cut your own hair ?

Wearing second hand / very old clothes. Do grow some of my own food. Not much hair to cut but when it was long, I did indeed cut my own hair.

Not off grid but do produce own solar power. Thinking about getting a battery.

As lass said it was all Marxist claptrap.

Marxist feminism and radical feminism have the same aims. Both call for a radical reordering of society. Marxism merely qualifies that in terms of dismantling capitalism.

Why do you need to feed "a bit of their own medicine"?
It makes you look nasty and vindictive -not really feminist traits.

It makes you look nasty and vindictive -not really feminist traits.

By way of an educational illustration. No malice intended.

Not off grid but do produce own solar power. Thinking about getting a battery

And did you build your own home? I’m guessing the battery will be paid for with —gulp— money?

I never said I was all the way there. My point was I'm making progress in some, albeit, small ways. Just like everyone else on here.

We need to change the rhetoric and involve men in "female "roles not bash other women for doing something different to us

Most of your posts have been bashing other women.

Most of your posts have been bashing other women.

Really. I could say the same for you Lass. Your posts bash me and other women like me.

I dont think you realise how you come across lilting
Or maybe you do
Chucking in "a taste of their own medicine"
Then raising your hands in innocence
Its a shame because this kind of debate is badly needed but when its taken over in this way and becomes a personal vendetta ,its pointless to continue .

Oh sorry, Lass, I see that post was not aimed at me. The comment you referenced, was not one I made.

Its a shame because this kind of debate is badly needed but when its taken over in this way and becomes a personal vendetta ,its pointless to continue

No one is forcing you to continue it.

Really. I could say the same for you Lass. Your posts bash me and other women like me

I have made no comments whatsoever on this thread about you or other women like you - whatever that means.

I have made no comments on the role of SAHMs other than it would not suit me.

I have responded to your much repeated claim that any women who uses child care or domestic help is exploiting others. A claim which is profoundly sexist btw.

I never said I was all the way there. My point was I'm making progress in some, albeit, small ways. Just like everyone else on here

The irony is that the thing that’s allowing you to move to the amazing Marxist self sufficiency - is the capital you and your husband have managed to earn.
You can’t claim the moral high ground moving towards a self sufficient life by paying for it with the cold hard cash you and your husband earnt (and he still earns).

I seriously impressed but don’t try and pretend you and your family haven’t benefited from capitalism.