Is choosing to be a SAHM a feminist decision?

[user1471506568]

Ok so I'm a SAHM and would also strongly identify as a radical feminist although admittedly I still am learning about all of this. I understand that liberal feminism is more about the individual as opposed to the class movement so under that philosophy being a SAHM is an acceptable feminist decision but I'm confused about the rad fem stance.

I can see how from a financial perspective being a SAHM is a bit of a backward step for feminism, but this is such a narrow view and I don't think money is the only measure of worth . In fact it strikes me as an extremely patriarchal measure where the balance will always be tipped to men earning more due to women having children.

I would be really interested in people's views on this. Can I be a radical feminist and a SAHM or am I letting down the class movement?

NB: Please don't take this as negative judgement of any working mothers as I respect everyone's decision to do what's best for them.

Why Bumble?

Why looking after a child is considered secondary?

The law should support both roles.

It really depends on who you ask. I don’t agree with class politics. I understand the argument that they achieve big changes quicker but class politics results in the kind of better that isn’t better for everyone. I’ve a firm believer in maximum freedom for everyone, this obviously include ensuring that all women have the right and opportunity to make free choices including the choice to be a SAHM. As such I can only conclude that anyone who claims to be a femenist tasked with advancing women’s rights but then turns around and tells women what to do is a hypocrite. I think you really need to ask yourself what kind of femenism is best? The kind that garners the best results for the greatest number of women or the kind that ensures that all women get to decide for themselves what is best for them.

I think the problem with the SAHM model is that it does overall make the current patriarchal working set up more sustainable.

So does the devaluing of this role. By doing this it perpetuates sexual inequality. It means stay at home parents are not well provided for, through governmental legislation. Which in turn means it is the most exploited and low paid sector of workers (women) are most likely to take in this role. The devaluing of the SAHP works in conjunction with inequality in the workplace. If men were equally as exploited they would be more likely to be SAHPs.

If equality is sought then valuing traditional female roles is part of the solution.

I dont see what is unfeminist about raising your own children.

As a decision, I dont think it is feminist or unfeminist. Its just a part of life

There are issues around childraising and womens roles and expectations of her that are feminist issues, but if you have a child then someones got to raise it, and why shouldnt it be the person that very probably loves it most in all the world, or at least one of the people that loves it most.

If equality is sought then valuing traditional female roles is part of the solution.

Yep agree with this.

I think if you are SAHM and you are unmarried, you are foolish.

The law protects women, why would you not protect yourself?

But that paid employment and the job of supporting the next generation of human race are at odds with each other seems to me utterly sexist. Only women can breastfeed, for example. You have to be in a fairly advantaged position to go back to work and bf an infant. And in practical terms is is ridiculous.

Biology can't be ignored, and it's utterly sexist to try to do it

If you want equal opportunities at work and men doing an equal amount of domestic labour and childcare, then women need work. By not doing that, you are not supporting those causes.

I think it is about power not about value. Women have always been valued for reproductive capacity. The main problem with not working is the person controlling the money in a relationship has a lot of power. That isn't true in every relationship but on a society level, men earning all the money and doing all the work kept women in their place.

*But that paid employment and the job of supporting the next generation of human race are at odds with each other seems to me utterly sexist. Only women can breastfeed, for example. You have to be in a fairly advantaged position to go back to work and bf an infant. And in practical terms is is ridiculous.

Biology can't be ignored, and it's utterly sexist to try to do it*

Well said assigned I agree. Not everyone can fight the good fight when the odds are so stacked against women.

I do however agree that the notion of women propping up the patriarchy and enabling ‘men children’ is difficult to stomach.

Of course you can!

Just because she isn't working, you can't assure op isn't financially independent!

Assume

You're not any kind of feminist I recognise bluntness

No, not one I recognise either.

Dismissing a woman's opinions on matters which affect women generally on the basis they are being supported (although really it is working in the home for the family) by their husband isn't any sort of feminism I want a part in. It certainly isn't part of radical feminism.

While a woman may be at home NOW they can still have opinions on rights in the work place/equal pay as they have worked and probably will again. Even if they NEVER intend to work again they may still have valuable observations on those subjects.

As to equal parenting I would have thought they had plenty of insight on that matter.

The idea of hierarchical feminism annoys me - the notion that I am more feminist than thou on the basis of what I do for a living. It's a nonsense and frankly buys into the patriarchal structure which has dismissed women's voices for so long and under values their contribution to society.

Dismissing women's views doesn't form any part of my feminism particularly when those views pertain to the plight of women.

The problem with the choice approach - or one of them anyway - is that there seems no clear reason why only women should have the choice to stay at home with kids or work outside. “It’s feminist for me to have the choice to stay at home.” Does the father of your children have that choice too? If not, why not?
Surely the better view is that families should be free to work these things out free of gendered expectations and pressures.

The main problem with not working is the person controlling the money in a relationship has a lot of power. That isn't true in every relationship but on a society level, men earning all the money and doing all the work kept women in their place.

But what also keeps women in their place is devaluing the role of child rearing. If it was more valued it would be much easier for a SAHP to return to work. The skills it involved would be respected and recognised. Career breaks would not present such problems. It would 'look good on a CV'.

Equally if the role were more valued more men would take on this role. The workplace would become more equal. With more equality in terms of who held the positions of power.

bluntness you have given me the rage!
It is clearly nonsense to say that a person can only have a valid opinion if they have current and direct experience of the topic in question. As a WOHM I may be in the trenches of ‘equal pay/ flexible working issues’ but I certainly don’t have the monopoly on having an opinion on such topics.

To answer the OP, I believe you can be both a Radfem, and a SAHM. Yes society pushes for women to be the stay at home parent, and makes it harder for women to be mothers working outside the home (vs fathers working outside the home), but it’s not the only issue that women and feminists are grappling with in the aim of equality. No need to die on the hill- you can be a SAHM and still have valid views on that, and every other topic impacting women and equality.

There are two things of interest to Feminism in the situation of a SAHM.
One is that the work being done for the benefit of society as a whole is uncompensated. That is bad and wrong.
The other is an individual concern for the women and children who are dependent on a man for their well being. The same society that benefits from her uncompensated work provides little in the way of assistance should the man fail in his obligations.
Feminism, the political movement for the liberation of women, has some ideas on how to improve women's position in the world.

Bluntness out of interest do you have feminist views on FGM?

I suspect you do.

Have you experienced FGM?

I'm hoping not.

As @Loungingbutnotforlong quite rightly said

It is clearly nonsense to say that a person can only have a valid opinion if they have current and direct experience of the topic in question

I believe that you can be a rad fem SAHM. I believe in the value of "women's" work. I don't believe that choosing (note the word choosing) to be a SAHM is a feminist decision. But part of radical feminism analysis is acknowledging that choices made by females as an oppressed class under patriarchy are not free choices. Apologies if I'm repeating anything already said

I work very very part-time. I don't consider in any way that i live off my H''s money. (Apart from what he inherited) every penny that comes into our possession belongs equally to both of us. And he sees it like that as well.
I never set out to attract a rich man. In fact I earned more than H when we met.
I believed I was making a choice as a feminist when I gave up my proper career to look after the kids.
But I do realise that I am a slave of the system and if it hadn't been so patriarchal in the way it its set up we would both be working part time (which we did try before I gave up) and equally contributing to child rearing and domestic stuff. In fact my kids would also be better off with that set up..

Grumpysquirrel -the trouble is most of society doesn't value the work we do because women are just not that important. Not as important as men anyway.

@thebewilderness, so true

The same society that benefits from her uncompensated work provides little in the way of assistance should the man fail in his obligations.

So many women here with such unwavering faith in men .
Where does it come from?

Since you ask I'd say it was a very non-feminist decision. To be financially dependant as an adult on another adult and a man at that. And it is not a role model I'd want for my children. Daddy earning the money and Mummy doing the cleaning and the childcare. But each to their own and call yourself what you like.

Of course SAHM can be feminists.

I sort of get Bluntness' opinion that it's difficult to be taken seriously if a person has no experience of a particular situation. As a SAHP I wasn't particularly interested in non SAHP's criticisms of SAHPing. Or the belittlement of traditional 'women's' work. However SAHPs almost always have some experience of the workplace and are therefore entitled to an opinion, surely? SAHP often also have experience of combining work with caring responsibilities. Plenty of people SAH when childcare for the second child becomes prohibitively expensive.

I actually think it is anti feminist and counterproductive to devalue traditional female (stereotyped) roles

Completely agree.

Exactly - most women who choose to sah are in a huge mess if the relationship breaks down.

Oh and child rearing would be valued if more men did it. How do we make that happen? By removing structural barriers to women earning the same or more than men (for example). And how do we do that? Not by "choosing" to be SAHMs. I appreciate this is simplistic and I've heard the argument that why should women make their own lives harder in order to to be trail blazers or more "feminist". But it explains why although I understand why women often make the decision to stay home, I don't believe it's a feminist one. It wasn't until my 30s that I realised as a working woman just exactly WHY it would so much easier to go down the path of least resistance and why so many women think "fuck leaning in, it's better for my family if I don't". But we do need a changing tide and we do need women willing to blaze the trail.

And men too, men who want a better future for their daughters and who actively will make career sacrifices to go part time for example or take shared parental leave.