Woman questioned under caution and banned from leaving the country for criticising Mermaids

[HereComesTheSun1]

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/tough-millwall-cave-in-to-transgender-bullies-nltnkpv3d

Relevant section:

Meanwhile, a woman who criticised a transgender charity on Twitter has been questioned under caution by police and told she will be arrested if she tries to leave the country. Kellie-Jay Keen- Minshull accused the group Mermaids of “suppressing free speech”.

She had accused Mermaids, which calls for children to be allowed irreversible sex-change treatment the NHS currently prohibits, of “prey[ing]” on gay teenagers and of “mass child abuse”. Mermaids declined to comment.

Oh thanks Beyond! Will take a look.

That JOB clip makes him sound awful. I don't think he actually has heard of 'social contagion' - either that or he's deliberately pretending to misinterpret it, in at attempt to make K/P look scaremongering, when in fact it just makes him look thick.

It's good how many of the comments from people who describe themselves as JOB fans think he was unfair, and way off the mark. Probably why he wouldn't return to the issue.

Ah!

Does anyone know where the CPS stand on this ?
or have they been indoctrinated by Mermaids

JOB is not an interviewer, he's a polemicist.

If he's on your side of an argument it's quite fun I suppose.

People shouldn't be under the impression that JOB is going to allow them a voice (ie interview them) - he will in fact just use you as a mannequin to drape his prejudices over and explain to everyone why your opinion is invalid.

Does anyone know where the CPS stand on this ?

Do you mean on trans as a hate crime generally? They produced an awful schools pack with Gendered Intelligence which basically told young girls that if they objected to the presence of a male in female spaces it could be considered a prosecutable hate crime. So not positive.

www.transgendertrend.com/cps-schools-project-the-erasure-of-sex-and-the-silencing-of-girls/

empress, that’s chilling and deserves a thread of its own.

empress

fucking hell. the crown prosecution service endorse training from an organisation (hi gendered intelligence, you sometimes turn up when i type you!) which tells young lesbians they are transphobic and therefore at risk of being prosecuted for a hate crime if they don't much fancy penises.

"a woman is still a woman even if she enjoys getting blow jobs. A man is still a man, even if he likes getting penetrated vaginally"

Yes, perhaps could be wider shared on MN, if Empress feels able? This is madness. Thank you for posting this - it is eye opening.

I'm sure empress wouldn't mind at all if someone started a new thread about it

Ereshkigal - I didn't know if they (CPS) had a stance. I am shocked by Empresses link.

Fucking hell. I'll have to make a good donation.
This is scandalous

empress I've just read that link. It is horrifying.

Resisting Hate is calling out to it's followers to dogpile the HoC.

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2076567739037311&substory_index=0&id=1319645621396197

“There is no statutory definition of a homophobic or transphobic incident. However, when prosecuting such cases, and to help us to apply our policy on dealing with cases with a homophobic or transphobic element, we adopt the following definition: “Any incident which is perceived to be homophobic or transphobic by the victim, or by any other person

Copied the above from that CPS schools project thing.

What a load of bollocks!

Can you imagine any other crime being defined like this? Oh, there’s no legal definition of murder, burglary, rape, etc but if someone perceives that there’s been a murder, burglary or rape then that’s all that counts!

Never mind all the scientifically incorrect bollocks about the brain tells people if they’re trans or not and trans people have brains wired differently to non trans people. Medical, biological bollocks.

Please can someone point me in the direction of the URL of the NHS which mentions Mermaids???

Here you go Beer

www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Transhealth/Pages/Transrealstorymother.aspx

Thank you 🙏🏻

There is no statutory definition of a homophobic or transphobic incident. However, when prosecuting such cases, and to help us to apply our policy on dealing with cases with a homophobic or transphobic element, we adopt the following definition: “Any incident which is perceived to be homophobic or transphobic by the victim, or by any other person

Copied the above from that CPS schools project thing.

What a load of bollocks!

Can you imagine any other crime being defined like this? Oh, there’s no legal definition of murder, burglary, rape, etc but if someone perceives that there’s been a murder, burglary or rape then that’s all that counts!

I think you misunderstand. A crime has to have happened first - the murder, rape, burglary, or in Posie’s case - allegedly - malicious communications, and then it can be defined as a ‘hate’ crime. The CPS define racist and religious crime in the same way - if the victim or any other person perceives the incident to be racist. Sadly, misogyny or sexism is not yet considered a hate crime.

www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/racist-and-religious-crime-cps-prosecution-policy

Importantly, in that guidance, CPS states: ‘Not all racist or religious incidents are criminal offences’. The criminal offence has to have happened first.

Posie spoke at the War on Women event at the House of Commons last night, & #IStandWithPosieParker became literal when she got a well-deserved standing ovation.

Susie Green is not transgender. She is a woman and therefore cannot be a victim of hate crime.

I wonder if this "test case" business is about someone making a comment deemed to be transphobic to someone who is merely related to a transgender person. In this case Susie Green being the mother of the transgender adult Jackie Green.

Importantly, in that guidance, CPS states: ‘Not all racist or religious incidents are criminal offences’. The criminal offence has to have happened first.

Yes, but the elevation of a crime into having an aggravated factor of hate should not be on the perception of the victim but on the evidenced motivation of the perpetrator.

The trans issue brings this into stark clarity. Homophobic men beat up TIMs. They don't care if that TIM isn't a TIM but a drag queen. The hate element is homophobia, whatever the TIM - one of a subset of people not renowned for a good perception of reality - thinks it might have been.