Woman questioned under caution and banned from leaving the country for criticising Mermaids

[HereComesTheSun1]

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/tough-millwall-cave-in-to-transgender-bullies-nltnkpv3d

Relevant section:

Meanwhile, a woman who criticised a transgender charity on Twitter has been questioned under caution by police and told she will be arrested if she tries to leave the country. Kellie-Jay Keen- Minshull accused the group Mermaids of “suppressing free speech”.

She had accused Mermaids, which calls for children to be allowed irreversible sex-change treatment the NHS currently prohibits, of “prey[ing]” on gay teenagers and of “mass child abuse”. Mermaids declined to comment.

I am beginning to think that this will only crash to the ground when the first lawsuit against a doctor who prescribed puberty blockers tio someone under 21 is won by a young adult who realises his/her body has been irrevocably changed and his/her fertility ruined by adults.

*hang in there ...

@Elementree i agree, horrible writing skills.

Also happy to make donations if needed.

Hopefully the CPS will approach things more soberly. That is why we have them, to take the police emotion and bias out of the prosecution (thinking of how the Birmingham Six etc. were framed).

And that Ted Talk, how can people lap up this crap? Taking away the child’s toys is beyond cruel. And asking for the operation at age six? Did the child come up with the concept of such surgery, or did someone (mum) tell them about it? As others have said before, when I hear stories of transgender children it’s like a vegan cat, there is no such thing, just vegan cat owners.

Good luck Posie

This is long but surprisingly readable:

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2016/2430.html

It shows in great detail why care must be taken when transing children,and why unquestioning affirmation is not a good thing.

Also happy to make donations if needed.

Same here!

I just read the turfy twitter thread.

I thought "Hold on, this is going too far. This is hyperbolic exaggeration".

I started fact checking...

I got so far, then gave up. I couldn't do anymore.

I feel utterly sick.

I think I have just peak transed DH. Which is difficult, as usually I barely a word in edgeways (he studied philosophy whereas I'm totally uneducated).
He summed it up succinctly

"I want to be a woman. It's my right as a man"

@RedToothBrush - that is why I thought it was gone. I don't think it is anything that has not been said before though.

I wonder if that TED X talk mum was anxious to have her child operated on because she secretly wanted a girl.

Too often parents choose to transition their children because they fear a non conforming child may be gay or lesbian.

I am beginning to think that this will only crash to the ground when the first lawsuit against a doctor who prescribed puberty blockers tio someone under 21 is won by a young adult who realises his/her body has been irrevocably changed and his/her fertility ruined by adults.

A few weeks back, LM tweeted about all those lovely future lawsuits. I wish i had screenshot it.

TransRealitySophia
So Dr Webberley is an impassioned Dr. who has done so much for trans people, especially in Wales. By giving treatment to those who would otherwise wait many years under the NHS.
My interpretation is a she is at best a misguided doctor who has wilfully ignored national and worldwide guidelines for the treatment of trans children, which is watchful waiting and no cross-sex hormones before the age of 16.

Our 'one little issue' with Mermaids (and with Webberley) is that they are ignoring these guidelines, and are willing to expose children (some of who may not grow up to be trans) to irreversible treatments. What Susie Green did to her own son is an extreme example.

Mermaids used to be a support group for parents, but under Susie Green's leadership it has turned into a lobby group for the early medicalisation (and sterilisation) of children who are not happy conforming to the gender stereotypes associated with their sex. It peddles the dangerous myth that children and teenagers must be affirmed in social/ medical transition or they will attempt to kill themselves, despite those studies being discredited.

Children and adolescents often try out different identities as they grow up and negotiate their place in the world. Especially as we go through adolescence, we often feel disquiet and discomfort with the changes our bodies go through and the rollercoaster ride our hormones take us on, but we emerge out the other side. They should be allowed the time and space to go through this without doing anything irrevocable. We should not tell children or teenagers that their body is wrong, or that because they chafe against the heteronormative gender stereotypes put on them by society, they have a boy's brain in a girl's body or vice versa.

I want to know what 11 year old Jackie took to overdose 7 times, why they didn't have any longlasting effects, and why they had access to enough pills to cause a problem.

I don't believe that.

"Totally reversible blocking medication" is also such a load of utter bullshit

Pallisers
I am beginning to think that this will only crash to the ground when the first lawsuit against a doctor who prescribed puberty blockers tio someone under 21 is won by a young adult who realises his/her body has been irrevocably changed and his/her fertility ruined by adults.

That worries me as well.

Dr Webberley is an impassioned Dr. who has done so much for trans people, especially in Wales

Also worth noting that the GMC has banned Webberley from working with any trans identifying people without supervision...

I've just reported the Resisting Hate FB page to FB for erm hate speech.

Small gesture I know but.......

What did she take to overdose 11 times?

Most people take a common medication such as paracetemol, which will knock you out, then when you wake up and decide it was all a mistake, but it kills you days just later, because it fucks your liver.

What other medication would be available in that house to allow the attempt 11 times

Surely after one attempt, there would be no fucking drugs available in the house. Under 16's are not permitted to buy medication.

Fuck. Really. Fuck.

Posie
Also willing to stump up some folding stuff if needed.
Surely the CPS wont take it forward? unless they were "trained" by mermaids too

I want to know what 11 year old Jackie took to overdose 7 times, why they didn't have any longlasting effects, and why they had access to enough pills to cause a problem.

Indeed. Our child had some MH issues and mild self-harming. We put away the knives and scissors and locked all medication - all of it including the vitamin D - in a box with a padlock.

Children and adolescents often try out different identities as they grow up and negotiate their place in the world. Especially as we go through adolescence, we often feel disquiet and discomfort with the changes our bodies go through and the rollercoaster ride our hormones take us on, but we emerge out the other side

This exactly. I've posted this before but this article www.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/opinion/language-pronouns-gender-zer.html

although written by someone who would probably disagree with most on this thread - really illustrates for me why young people should be left to navigate their journey towards settled identity with compassion, kindness, acceptance and without any permanent physical change that they may live to regret.

I really worry about the erosion of women's rights and spaces but I truly worry about teenagers being operated on and given hormones that will affect their lives forever.

ok, misread that, it was 11 year old attempting it 7 times

This is all just hyperbole. The multiple overdoses, the self-harming. If you have a child who is that distressed and you have the means to help them, surely you pay for residential care? Why was Jackie still at school if they had taken 7 overdoses and tried to self harm numerous times before they were 12? Why weren't they sectioned?

I also found it really disturbing the way that Jackie just parroted everything mum said in that video clip. Exactly the same words, exactly the same traumatic incidents described in exactly the same way.

I would contribute to a defence fund. But i can't see anyone thinking there is a public interest in prosecuting this.

TransRealitySophia

You do realise that Mumsnet has 12 million unique users per month, don't you?

Perhaps you didn't know that we have had several parents on here who are ex-Mermaid supporters?

There was a memorable thread when they were talking about their experience and why they left mermaids, and a whole bunch of mermaid members came on and outed one of them. Actually outed them.

Making them identifiable. Using confidential data. I do believe they actually named them.

If mermaids don't want to be called a cult, I suggest they stop acting like one.

What with that and one of their spokespeople calling homosexuality deviant, their credibility is on the floor. The fact they deleted the video, pushes that credibility into the basement.

Perhaps you could have a word with them, and suggest that calling the police on people who disagree with what they are saying, doesn't tend to look very open and transparent.

This is alarming. Under what authority have the police been able to require that she not leave the country? She says she hasn't been charged yet - what is she going to be charged with, and is it normal for people who may or may not be charged to be told not to leave the country? Given the amount of genuine threats that women get on Twitter the fact that it's this that's seen as meriting police intervention is very telling.