Please help me reply to this defence of "Menstruators"

[colouringinagain]

Hi. I'm part of a FB group for women suffering with PMDD. I commented on a recent post where "Menstruators" was used. I suggested with a wink, that they meant Women.

This was the reply:
Nope... We had lots of feedback very early on that trans men and non binary sufferers need to be included... It's menstruators or those who menstruate for now. If you can think of something better so let us know. And if not... Then please feel free to step forward and take all the slack we get 😉

I am massively disappointed that this group has fallen for the trans line. Especially as it's one supporting Women with an ultimately Female health problem.

Any suggestions please - I am too

Menstruators? As in MEN.

I find that highly offensive and until recently I spent 25% of my time menstruating, but it makes me one thing, not a woman with a medical issue but just a medical issue.

I am much more than that.

Self ID worries me for a number of reasons, but one is that some medical treatment, and even some tests are specific to men or women, to what you are biologically not how you 'feel' or present to the world.

Lung function tests are compared to norms of sex , height and race.

So they accuse gender critical feminists of reducing women to their biology.

Then they do this.

In this specific group situation which exists to discuss that bodily function, yes. Because that's more relevant to this scenario than the definition of woman. Everyone there will know they're women from the problem they have. It's the menstruation bit that matters in this specific context.

It's still dehumanizing though - we don't call people 'gestators' in the maternity clinic, we don't call people 'betoed' at the podiatrist. In what other circumstance do we separate people from the reason they're there? In fact, it's considered outstandingly rude and dehumanising to do it - you don't say 'that Autist' you say 'the person with autism'

Even in that dropdown above, it was 'Breastfeeding parent' and Dad/partner - ie. only women were erased - from a Breastfeeding dropdown!

Like Akire says in the context of wheelchair users (note we certainly wouldn't use a one-word descriptor reducing people to their condition here either because it would be outstandingly offensive) - they understand that 'walking time' includes time on wheels too, it doesn't need to be explicitly said (well, unless the route is unsuitable - that would be being inclusive in a sensible way).

If transmen really can't understand that as owners of female bodies, they might occasionally access services that use the term 'Woman', if this really is so mentally damaging to them that the vast majority of users should be referred to in a dehumanising way, which in virtually any other situation would be extremely rude, then honestly, I think that they need to find some way to get some help with their self-acceptance, because it's not healthy to expect the world to revolve around you like that

That poem is incredible.

I’d be quite happy with females or biological females.

Covers transmen too.

Id really want to include a transman suffering with this condition into the group. I wouldn't want to be dehumanized to a menstruater though. It's too clumsy to say women and other menstruators, maybe an acronym like BAME. WOMMANH (women and men menstruating and needing help)

Women OR men - obvs

OP, you could explain until the cows come home, but unless you adhere to the illogical logic that is being forced on you, you will be alienated.

Try explaining, see what happens. It might work. But I doubt it.

So you need to use the tools you have been given.

For instance, continue to say women but add 'and transmen and NB people'.

Also, I would find a way of talking about men, every now and then, but say 'ejaculator'. It sounds offensive, because it is. But no more offensive than menstruator.

Some people are quite willing to dehumanise females, but as soon as the boot is on the other foot, it sounds more shocking.

Explain you don't like the word menstuator (with all the reasons posters have given), but of course you won't want to be inclusive, so will use use women, transmen and NB people.

It's incredibly clunky, but I don't see how it can be objected to. It would be interesting how they apply logic to an objection.

I can only see the argument being it's too long winded. But the other side of the argument is that it's offensive to you to be called a menstruator.

So you're weighing up 'long winded', with 'offence'.

And since they set so much store by offence, I don't see where they can go with it.

Apart from anything else, it's rarely transmen who object to this sort of thing. It is men identifying as women, using transman as cover.

Plus, and I hate to say this, but those sorts of sites are catnip to a certain type of transwoman.

Teabagtits - I notice the male parent is named on that survey (the Dad) but not the female. Why on earth can the not use the term 'Mum'? They've used the male equivalent.

Will someone please tweet hairylittlepoets poem, utterly brilliant

Typical MN not reading the OP given how many people have leapt to the conclusion this is about transwomen.

Bloody hell hairy - that poem is amazing. Are you doing anything with it ? You should. Best thing I’ve seen in ages.

That poem, Hairy!
Please may I share it? It really does need to be seen

I suffer with diagnosed PMDD. I don't menstruate. Instead I take hormones that stop my periods (and make me gain weight and increase my blood pressure) so that I can continue to have a life and go to work instead of being a crying suicidal wreck every month. And if eventually it means that I have to have a total hysterectomy, then I won't have a womb or menstruate. But I'll be a woman.

I'm fucking sick and tired of what I am being a banned word.

Akire That was the exact parallel I drew about disability - we encourage people not to worry about asking a blind person if they 'saw a TV show' because they still 'watch' TV, and it's more alienating to assume they don't just because they can't see!

Wrote this on another thread
I think we miss the point that a lot of these people are outsiders who feel bitter about a system that they don't feel they fit into. So the mentality is to destroy that system if given the opportunity to.

They don't feel they are losing anything and they don't think they owe anything to other people who have 'excluded' them.

I think unless you consider that and dismiss the idea of people doing that, because no one would be that malicious, you don't understand a huge disenfranchised part of society and the anger within that.

For that reason, in this context there are plenty of people, who have no interest or problem in this area, who will actively shit stir and demand 'to be included' when they don't even suffer from the condition nor even have the potential to suffer from the condition.

A lot of whats going on is being led by anarchicists or hijacked by anarchicistic.

Well meaning people who are part of society can not even comprehend or conceive that there is deliberate interference or destabilising going on, which is nothing to do with medical issues and is simply malicious.

Teabagtits - I notice the male parent is named on that survey (the Dad) but not the female. Why on earth can the not use the term 'Mum'? They've used the male equivalent.

And what about a baby with a breastfeeding mum and a non breastfeeding mum?

I really don’t understand what is wrong with saying that the term female refers to biology and nothing else.

How do you educate children if you act as though being a ‘gestator’ or a ‘menstruator’ are random processes that have no connection to being female. How do you tell girls what to expect if you can’t use words?

We talk about women and societies in other countries suffering because of lack of education and oppressive cultural norms, but I’m not sure what’s so different here if we all have to pretend that everyone has an innate female or male spirit.

This language gymnastics has actually been making me mentality unwell. Its undermining my identity and self worth. Its frankly about holding power over others, to make yourself feel better by projecting your pain on others. Thats frankly abusive.

I agree Red I find this gaslighting very reminiscent of my abusive relationship.

Wonderful poem Hairy

I agree with a PP that saying the group is for 'women, transmen and GNC people who menstruate' might be a good way to avoid dehumanisation and still be inclusive to women who don't identify as such.

No. Stop this pandering to mental instability and narcissistic personality disorder. These people are WOMEN. They want everyone to walk on eggshells around them. It is abusive, and it is offensive.

No reason why they can't repeat women, transmen and non-binary every now and then. But they risk not reaching the 99.995% if they no longer address women.

This. Exactly.

I just read Hairy's poem out loud to myself, for the pure pleasure of it. It would make a great YouTube video.

I'm on the same group OP and I've just had a look and saw your comment. Well done.