Please help me reply to this defence of "Menstruators"

[colouringinagain]

Hi. I'm part of a FB group for women suffering with PMDD. I commented on a recent post where "Menstruators" was used. I suggested with a wink, that they meant Women.

This was the reply:
Nope... We had lots of feedback very early on that trans men and non binary sufferers need to be included... It's menstruators or those who menstruate for now. If you can think of something better so let us know. And if not... Then please feel free to step forward and take all the slack we get 😉

I am massively disappointed that this group has fallen for the trans line. Especially as it's one supporting Women with an ultimately Female health problem.

Any suggestions please - I am too

Menstruaters is fucking offensive as far as im concerned.

Because menstruator makes me sound like fucking livestock.
Its like calling a person a breeder. Its dehumanising and degrading.
I DO NOT IDENTIFY AS A MENSTRUATOR DONT MISS LABEL ME.
I am a woman who menstruates

As RTB says, 'menstruators' is dehumanising. That might not be such a problem if we weren't living in a cultural context which dehumanises us at every opportunity, or if it wasn't so easy to relate that dehumanisation to the serious harms that women and girls suffer on a daily basis.

Menstruaters is fucking offensive as far as im concerned

Me too. It's worse than the whole "reducing a person to their genitals" argument that TRAs like to play, it's reducing us to a biological process.

Plus it reminds me of the term "breeders", as used by misognistic gay men

x-post with SpringHen

"If there are people who feel that they don't fall under the definition of 'woman', the terms menstruators helps them feel included.

Presumably, these people have wombs and are suffering health-wise. If this word helps them to connect with other people suffering PMDD and support each other, how is that a bad thing?"

Sorry, but who cares if they feel included or not?

I can see that in situations where it has no impact on people one can be "inclusive", however in this scenario there is a clear impact. And it's on women. Women can't even call themselves women any more. Do you not get the significance of that?

By the by, have you ever heard of trans men complaining they don't feel included in talk about "men and prostate cancer"? Maybe it has happened but most certainly not on the same scale, not anywhere near it. Do you not wonder why it's almost always women who need to allow others in, give in, be accepting, etc. etc. etc.?

When the term "woman" is no longer objective, based on biological reality, but rather an obscure "identity" or "feeling", it no longer has any meaning. When you say water you mean something specific. You don't mean any liquid that that is clear, do you? "A woman is anyone who identifies as a woman", is not only wrong since it forces females to having to "identify" as woman, but it's circular. It has no more meaning. Women's rights have no basis any longer.

You have to see the bigger picture and not just "well in this instance I'm not really affected but it helps them so let's do it" (though I question any woman who does not feel there is something wrong with men telling you to not call yourself women in relation to quintessential womanly bodily features).

Tbh what they have said to you makes it sound like they themselves are weary about it. 'Feel free to get the flack we get' was it? Do feel free to point out that actually them falling over backwards to be inclusive is pretty fucking exclusionary to the vast majority of those they are supposed to be supporting.

But feel free to just let them crack on too. You don't have to fight every battle and it's sometimes exhausting to do so...

Completely agree really Menstruators.

This is what I'm planning to say:

I understand that this term is more inclusive for a woman identifying as a man.

However this term is dehumanising. It eradicates the person and the biological reality of my situation as a woman.

I personally find it offensive to be called a Menstruator: I am So much more than a biological process.

How do all the other biological women in this group feel?

Biological women living as women make up 51% of the UK population, yet can't talk collectively about our periods as Women? Really?

Or 5% transmen may prefer not use word.

70% woman (a guess) hate word mensuators.

So 25% don’t have problem.

Who do you upset. The 5% or 70%? Given you can’t please both groups without excluding one.

Oh well that was rather long. I had some tweet exchange with a particularly conceited little bastard and am feeling a bit rany, apologies.

I would be a menopauser then in this scenario? Presumably men will be laying claim to that too

"Who do you upset. The 5% or 70%? Given you can’t please both groups without excluding one."

"The 5% is so vulnerable your bigoted opinion is literal violence and they will kill themselves".

Thanks everyone. As someone said I suspect they've caved into the flack... Need to signpost them....

I don’t have an answer & this is a bit Off topic but in the same idea - I came across this from the Breastfeeding Network earlier describing breastfeeding parents.

Another case of inclusivity gorn maaahd?

Bizarre how groups will exclude women for the sake of including women who do not identify as women.

I question any woman who does not feel there is something wrong with men telling you to not call yourself women

From the OP, it didn't appear that there were any men involved in this decision as it's about something only women will experience. Nor that the group is trying to get others not to call themselves women. It sounded like it was more to be inclusive in the abstract as to who the group is for, rather than denying that the members are actually women.

I agree that it would be terrible for someone to use the term 'menstruator' to refer to a woman in any other context and that it would sound akin to 'breeder' or when people say 'she must be on her period'. But this is a group dealing with a medical issue which specifically arises from menstruation.

A Poem:

Menstruator, and other words that rhyme with 'hate her'

if you wish to be inclusive
please amend your language usage
'woman' has now been disabled
this is how you shall be labelled:

ovulator, menstruator, gestator, incubator
procreator, lactator, child curator, care-taker
homemaker, meal maker, vacuum cleaner operator
titillator, conciliator, erotic roleplay stimulator

if a woman should resist
any title from this list
please ensure her full compliance
here is how to squash defiance:

moderate, invalidate, ensure that you re-educate her
irritate her, frustrate her, make sure you exasperate her
do berate her, denigrate her, obviously you castigate her
deprecate her, do deflate her, tell her you depreciate her

dominate, humiliate, and certainly manipulate her
subjugate, domesticate, and if you can, you abnegate her
penetrate her, impregnate her, all her life administrate her
regulate, incarcerate, and you shall incapacitate her

violate her, desecrate her, let your actions devastate her
decorate her, mutilate her, crush her and debilitate her
obviate, excoriate, and with your words eviscerate her
decimate, intimidate, until you can subordinate her

designate her, emulate her, mimic her and obfuscate her
appropriate, adulterate, mock and then impersonate her
exterminate, obliterate, and finally annihilate her
disintegrate, evaporate, replace and then eradicate her

just negate her
just negate her
just negate her

hate her

From the OP, it didn't appear that there were any men involved in this decision as it's about something only women will experience. Nor that the group is trying to get others not to call themselves women.

I took it that there were members who did not identify as women but who suffer from PMDD because biology is a bastard like that and doesn't respect self-ID and chosen pronouns

It would make ME feel excluded and dehumanised. To the point, i'd probably leave the group. Even if I needed support. Clearly politics rather than the health condition are the priority of the group.

I think the dehumanisation is triggering to me. The normalisation of it, is vile.

HairyLittlePoet
Excellent poem!
Please may I copy and share?

You may indeed IamEarthyMama

"It sounded like it was more to be inclusive in the abstract as to who the group is for, rather than denying that the members are actually women."

Well regarding no men being in the group, does it matter? The agenda is driven by men, many women are just "being polite" and trying to always think about men. Regarding this statement, yes I see your point, but then you are reducing humans down to functions. Am I a "spermanator"? Are you a fetus oven rather than a pregnant woman? Where are all the natal women that are unable to do things usually associated with "woman". Do they complain that those who menstruate are called women and not menstruators?

The agenda is driven by men, many women are just "being polite" and trying to always think about men.

If there were a transman in a group I was in talking about their suffering, I would want them to feel included. Not because they're presenting as a man or because I've been trained to be polite, but because they're a human being and they're suffering. If they're so uncomfortable with their womanhood that they've decided to identify as a man instead, it must be awful to experience something that only women suffer from that reminds them that they're really still a woman. On top of the actual PMDD that all the women in the group are suffering from that brought them all together in the first place.

I see your point, but then you are reducing humans down to functions

In this specific group situation which exists to discuss that bodily function, yes. Because that's more relevant to this scenario than the definition of woman. Everyone there will know they're women from the problem they have. It's the menstruation bit that matters in this specific context.

It is SO dehumanising I find it really quite upsetting.

What also worries me, is that slowly these groups will start to change their language so much that they become unsearchable.
Women will find eventually they won’t be able to search for the term woman or period and desperately needed help and support will become unavailable to them all because we have to toe the trans line.

Realities of womanhood will soon only be dealt with in bathrooms at home. Shut your mouth women.

Completely missed what I was saying, so to be more precise, the trans agenda is driven by men. Not that particular group.

" Everyone there will know they're women from the problem they have."

Apparently not. If everyone did, there wouldn't be a problem with the word 'woman'. And I ask you again, where are the females that do not / cannot menstruate crying how women who do can't call themselves women in that context?