Please help me reply to this defence of "Menstruators"

[colouringinagain]

Hi. I'm part of a FB group for women suffering with PMDD. I commented on a recent post where "Menstruators" was used. I suggested with a wink, that they meant Women.

This was the reply:
Nope... We had lots of feedback very early on that trans men and non binary sufferers need to be included... It's menstruators or those who menstruate for now. If you can think of something better so let us know. And if not... Then please feel free to step forward and take all the slack we get 😉

I am massively disappointed that this group has fallen for the trans line. Especially as it's one supporting Women with an ultimately Female health problem.

Any suggestions please - I am too

Couldn't the group be called 'Menstrual problems'? After all, post-menopausal women don't menstruate, and nor do women who have had hysterectomies.

You can't identify people by their bodily functions, otherwise you would have to refer to the function in every situation never just women. So menstruators, gestators, lactators, ovulators, eaters, defecators, ejaculators...reducing people's humanity to a ragbag unconnected functions, descriptors that change depending on what they are doing at that moment in time.

I reject much of trans ideology, but I don't feel that deliberately excluding an individual woman who feels the need to identify out of her womanhood for whatever reason helps to get the message across about the devastating effects on women that trans ideology has - it feels like teachers or nurses striking. Especially when it comes to transmen, who are, if you reject trans ideology, still a subset of women and who are suffering in this instance from a debilitating women's health issue.

I ask you again, where are the females that do not / cannot menstruate crying how women who do can't call themselves women in that context?

I'm not sure what you mean by this - this isn't a question of what it is to be a woman, it's a specific group for menstrual problems. Feel free to clarify as I'm not sure what you're asking.

Its not deliberately excluding to use the word 'woman'. Just use and transmen if you have to. But menstrators? No fuck off to the far side of beyond. That strips women of their own (equally valid) identity.

I have PMDD, it has nearly ruined my
Life, because I am a biological WOMAN. I could give a shiny fuck who that offends. Fuck their reductive “menstruator” bullshit. No. Just no.

No one, who is not biologically female, should need access to a group for PMDD sufferers.

I've got an idea, how about, for people who have physical attributes like breasts and vaginas and who give birth and menstruate, we use the term "woman," and for those people who have penises and who ejaculate we use the term "men." Then health professionals dealing with issues relating to birth, periods, prostate cancer, smear tests etc will be able to distinguish from one biological group from the other.

redholly you know, you might really be onto something there! How could we get it to catch on... ? 🤔

"I'm not sure what you mean by this - this isn't a question of what it is to be a woman, it's a specific group for menstrual problems. Feel free to clarify as I'm not sure what you're asking"

Plenty of trans women upset about say pussy hats or women talking about menstruation, ovaries etc.

Why are there no natal women who can't do / don't have these things also crying how they are being excluded by the term "woman" in those contexts? It's a bit of a rhetorical question, most people here will know the answer, but since you are arguing the way you are, it'd be interesting to hear why you think this is.

What if women suddenly said "ok, we don't identify as women anymore, but as 'goodies' and goodies have these criteria". They somehow managed to fight for rights, and spaces for them, like women actually did.

What would transwomen do? Would they simply stick to being women, or would they now try to identify themselves as goodies?

They are reducing you to a bodily functions rather than a person ( woman)

Sorry to hear that Lady.

I understand the woman who identifies as a transman suffers from the same.

MrG those are all issues to do with transwomen though. This is about women and transmen who suffer from a specific women's health issue, and I don't personally believe that every question to do with trans necessarily requires the same answer. I do appreciate what you're saying about the wider trans ideology, I just don't think this issue is about that.

I agree with a PP that saying the group is for 'women, transmen and GNC people who menstruate' might be a good way to avoid dehumanisation and still be inclusive to women who don't identify as such.

I think you would run into the 'slippery slope' argument if you said it was for 'men who menstruate' (and I can see that this is something some TRAs might push for, but since it concerns biological women's bodies, one would hope they'd have less interest).

I would probably let the group know that you find the word menstruator incredibly upsetting and offensive given that this is already a massive health issue for you and all the other members of the group and you do not wish to be reduced to a biological function you're already struggling with.

I recently had a chat with someone who's planned a women's health campaign who was asked if they could really use the word women anymore and wouldn't that exclude people etc. Their response was that as of now the English language has an actual word for female people: woman. We are targeting adult human females, that is who we're going to address and even transmen know they are female people. They pointed out that removing the word women would mean not reaching about 99.995% of the people they were trying to reach with the campaign. The health implications of that are far greater than the risk of possibly offending less that 0.005% (coz not all transmen are offended by this).

So, I'd add that the prevalence of transsexual females in the population is estimated to be 1:38K and that not all transmen object to the word woman being used. Therefore a workable suggestion would be to directly reference that transmen and non-binary people are of course welcome, but that the word woman will be used most of the time. No reason why they can't repeat women, transmen and non-binary every now and then. But they risk not reaching the 99.995% if they no longer address women.

I should probably add that the highest estimate is 1% of the population as trans identifying in some way or other, most of those are male. So if you don't want to sound too daft, I'm sure 99% would still get the point across

There were and are plenty of females who don't menstruate. They never complained about the use of "woman", at least not with such furor that it became newsworthy (but do correct me if I am wrong on this). Suddenly transwomen come along and you can't say women anymore. Clearly, this has nothing to do with not being able to do it (else females would have complained before), but everything about transwomen's entitlement. Females who didn't menstruate patently do not feel "excluded" by the use of the term "women". Transwomen do.

I would probably let the group know that you find the word menstruator incredibly upsetting and offensive given that this is already a massive health issue for you and all the other members of the group and you do not wish to be reduced to a biological function you're already struggling with.

That's a very good point Charlie.

MrG, this has got nothing to do with transwomen, nor about the definition of women in relation to transwomen. There are no transwomen involved in this scenario as it's about women and transmen.

I'm not saying I agree with the trans agenda but I do think it's important to look at things objectively and not get bogged down in the fact that TRAs said x when it's really not relevant to the discussion at hand.

I think that CharlieParley has come up with a really sensible reason as to why the 'menstruator' definition to describe that group of women is problematic (and pulls together a lot of what PPs objected to about being reduced to their biology, not least when PMDD already does that).

You know what, sometimes people get upset at stuff. Sometimes we feel hurt at stuff. It's normal, it's human, it's life.

Many women are too old to have periods or children, but we would never think of giving them a new name. They are women, end of, whether or not they can conceive, menstruate, give birth etc.

What would you suggest calling them? Post menstruators? Seriously? So it's OK to alienate them in order to pander to others?

Also, no-one thinks of banning tampon ads just so older women they don't have their feelings hurt, they just get on with it. Sometimes you just have to grow up and deal with stuff.

As a woman who has had a hysterectomy, it's really offensive, suggesting I'm less of a woman now I don't menstruate?

How far can this nonsense go? Who comes up with this crap?

It's also really devisive, makes me less sympathetic to the cause.

What a pity the admin are folding on this issue. And what on Earth are trans men doing on a pmdd site to give them such hassle. Some months at various stages in life I've felt I have pmdd symptoms and it's awful. Its bad enough wondering htf you can be so tormented by your hormones that you don't really need to be told it's not about being a woman.

I'd be saying let the individual posters use the terms they want. If 0.5% of people identify as trans, I would also argue not all of them will be offended by "women".

I don't understand why trans activists aren't proud of their journey - be trans- don't erase women and create nonsensical categories to assuage your discomfort of being trans.

I don't find it an offensive descriprion per se. Menstruators are a subset of women who have functioning plumbing.

However by these snowflakes acceding to 'menstruators' as a non triggering, inclusive term, but not 'woman' as a non triggering, inclusive term, they are forcing you to collude in a lie that 'woman' means ladybrain.

Fuck that.

I would also have thought that transmen might have both different issues and different options open to them to treat those issues. For example if they are on testosterone then their hormones will be very different. They may well be considering hysterectomies (and be more likely to be given them). They may also be dysphoric about their periods. In short they may really need a group of their own.

Hairy - superb poem!! I'd ask to share it too but not sure where I'd put it, but it definitely should be in a more prominent place. I'd love to see it performed too.

Agree with Nooka that transmen likely have their own set of issues with PMDD and another space might be more useful for them.

For menstruators, I absolutely hate being reduced to a function. It's also like breeders for me. Maybe the group would be better off using "sufferers" in this instance?

Thats an awful degrading word. Set up your own group then poach the sensible members