Talk radio Julia Hartley-Brewer & Lily Madigan

[GrimDamnFanjo]

Painful.

Lily wasn't really incoherent.

The said exactly the same as any other TRA.

If they’re going to put anyone up for first Trans MP, it’ll be the far more articulate and committed Eddie Izzard.

Surely even LM can see that?

Oh FFS. Izzard is full on cringe too, although maybe a bit more coherent than Lily. Either way, it will be a car crash

Referring to "complicated biology" is just a way of co-opting the experiences of intersex people into a movement that insists that everybody must have a gender.

High five @sashh! I've liked your tweet & started following you. I've had to set up an anonymous twitter account so that I can be honest about my concerns.

Izzard isn't backed by Momentum. So he's going nowhere in the Labour Party.

He was defeated by three Momentum candidates when he ran for a seat on the National Executive Committee.

And Labour had already selected Heather Peto and Sophie Cook (both male to female transgender) to stand in the last General Election. Both were not elected by the general public.

Some right wingers see gender as innate and believe people should change their behaviour to correlate with their birth sex.

Some left wingers see gender as innate and believe people should change their bodies to correlate with their preferred gender role.

Feminists (the real ones) do not believe gender is innate and think people should accept their bodies and express themselves however they like.

That is summed up absolutely perfectly. No one (or at least I don't) has a problem with men wearing whatever they want, acting however they want, being called she, etc. The problem is purely and solely with the infringement on women's rights when self-identifying men are treated as legal women. I find I get maybe 5 words into that statement until I'm shouted down though.

When I apologised for him being upset

That's it in a nutshell.

Why should you take responsibility for his temper tantrum?

I know, it's strange but I felt really guilty. I left the pub after he stormed out and met another old friend (one I'm seeing) and he said to text before it all got out of hand and there was no going back, so I thought he was right and the friend would also apologise. My other (female) friend who was there during the argument told me later she thought I was stupid to have apologised. I still feel really guilty about it, I'm scared I was over the top in my argument or aggressive or something. I can't believe he'd walk out just because of a difference of opinion.

God he is so STUPID. How did he get accepted into uni? He is hopeless

LM is a fashion student

Complicated Biology.

All it means is you weren't paying attention at school.

When I was at school doing my dual science GSCE, we were comparing our answers, and one girl piped up that on the question for reproduction that she had written 'the penis enters the anus'.

We howled and she was completely oblivious as to why it was so hilariously funny. I do wonder what happened to her and whether she has any kids...

@IndominusRex

You're also on the same side as Julie Bindel, lots of people from the women's sector, Brian Cox, Sarah Ditum, Robert Webb, Graham Linehan etc.
Just because you don't agree with someone like JHB on most things doesn't mean you can't agree with them on some things. I'm sure JHB wouldn't kick a puppy for example, that doesn't mean that you should kick one

Thanks for this. Good job you're here to patronise me, I'd never have worked it out for myself

Five

I was similariliy taken aback by left wing males' reactions when I first talked about Gender Self ID. But as Lang said, it's the tribal nature of politics now and woe betide anyone step outside the accepted position. Again, until this issue came up, I didn't see it, but my God, I see it everywhere now.

I understand wanting to keep the peace, but your friend is an arse who can't deal with any opposition to his views. It's hard fucking work this shit, isn't it?

I don't think he is at university. Isn't he doing a foundation course at art college and applying to UCAS for next year?

Lm was asking for help with ucas application fees recently so I don’t think at uni yet.

LM shows up Momentum and the Labour party for their lack of safeguards for the vulnerable. I don't like what LM stands for when they try to harm society.

Even people who do evil acts deserve protection as so those they harm.

It really is Assigned. I know it's certainly not something I'm going to be bringing up again with anyone in real life. I felt like I was announcing I was homophobic or racist or something. I know that staying silent from now is, of course, paving the way for women to be stripped of yet more rights.

I wouldn't mind but I encouraged this particular friend to join the Labour Party a few months ago having been a member myself (and a very lowly elected politician) for many years and being involved in the whole Corbyn campaign from the start. And there he is kicking off with me about not understanding left wing politics. Mind, this is the same man who tried to tell me a couple of months ago that working class people couldn't be conservative if they didn't own their own houses because the definition of conservative was to be a homeowner. When I argued about that he told me that politics wasn't a profession so I didn't know more than him

He's coming across a bit thick here but at school and university, both of which I went through with him, he was really one of, if not the most, intelligent person in both.

If Jon Lansman becomes General Secretary as he hopes, will Eddie Izzard not go on to the National Executive to replace him? As Izzard came 4th in the elections a few weeks ago, someone in the party told me that they wouldn't have a fresh election, as it was so recent. Hoping someone in the know can confirm.

He is absolutely not Momentum - he was the Progress candidate.

Eddie Izzard on a girl day or a boy day?

LM is doing a fashion course at the moment, but tweeted about filling in their UCAS form a few weeks ago for, I assume, September entry. They were complaining that it would be late because they didn't have the money for the fee - cue people on Twitter offering to pay it for them. Shameless scrounging.

“Eddie Izzard on a girl day or a boy day?”

Either way, he’s a far better candidate that Lily Madigan will ever be.

Come to think of it, my 8 year old DD is a better candidate that LM will ever be...

@Tanith

In the current climate, Eddie Izzard on the NEC would be fascinating. As far as I'm aware he's started to identify as 'trans' but not as a 'transwoman'.

Pigeons meet the cat

He's coming across a bit thick here but at school and university, both of which I went through with him, he was really one of, if not the most, intelligent person in both.

Weirdly, he sounds just like Boris Johnson.

Five pastels - here's a more positive spin on this for you (although I might be completely wrong).

Your friend honestly believed you would have the same opinion about this as he would so he was shocked at your viewpoint. Because he has never really thought about it before. So maybe (and it seems big maybe) he might go home and think "Fivepastels really shocked me, I didn't think she would ever be like that. Normally we agree about everything. Maybe I need to think this through a bit more".

So maybe, just maybe - he might go home and do some research and check out your points and start to soften his stance just a little.

Whatever happens, never fail to express what you know to be true. Because once or twice you might actually persuade someone of your viewpoint.

But I could be talking bollocks and giving your friend too much credit.

Perhaps you're right, remember. I certainly hope so! I'm so pleased I posted on this thread, I feel loads better and much less guilty.