Biological SEX MATTERS. How many mumsnetters say "aye" to this campaign?

[SexMatters]

This document and campaign called 'Sex Matters' is a collaborative effort by amazing and knowledgeable mumsnetters on a couple of threads in FWR.

To move forward with the campaign, the organisations and individuals approached will need to know who is behind it, and the honest truth, is that mumsnetters have spearheaded it.

That does not mean that other campaigners can't get involved or even take greater ownership of it. But it needs a bio in order to introduce it to people and organisations to get started and I need your consent to describe the campaign this way: 'mumsnetter led' (and maybe even some suggestions for writing a bio on this thread).

So, you amazing gender-critical mumsnetters, do you say 'aye'?

Aye

Is it necessary to mention intersex fertility at all?

It is important to mention that intersex people are not actually hermaphrodites - able to reproduce like snails for example, because that undermines the statement that we are a reproductively dimorphic species.

That makes sense, OP. I'd forgotten the snail / clownfish argument.

Maybe change the phrasing to compromised fertility or similar? I think the science has to be watertight as even one error has the potential to undermine the whole proposal.

sure - thanks

Most definitely yes!

Aye!

I don't see these people as a danger to women, particularly women just having a haircut.

It's not the danger aspect as well you know. It's the religious aspect of showing hair to a male which is not allowed.

Whether you approve of such restrictions in a religion is irrelevant to the debate.

Hi I don’t mind the use of ‘sex-segregation’ in the doc since it is literally what is being advocated for, but... if you don’t want to use then could it be ‘single-sex’, rather than using ‘same-sex’?

I think the ‘single-sex’ vs ‘mixed sex’ spaces labels are good because they are familiar to a lot of people already. A lot of us use those same labels for talking about different types of hospital wards and schools.

Interesting points Kafka.

Aye

Yes, this is clear and well written.

Regarding the hairdresser comments from some Mumsnetters, there's a salon in Liverpool, the lady who runs it, is amazing. She's a victim of awful domestic abuse. She now has a salon where victims go to her to get help and chat. It's women only salon.

I'm sure she won a pride of Britain award will try and find it.

www.prideofbritain.com/history/2017/katie-walker

This is her.

I'm a child sexual abuse survivor, it took me a long long time to be able to be around men. So for the women having a salon like this, I think it's brilliant, and I understand completely why they need it.

I always declined male hairdressers until 2 years ago. I still won't have a male doctor, midwife or anyone male to do my smear tests. I'm praying this gender id bill doesn't come in. It terrifies me.

Aye

Aye

Aye

Been thinking about 'single-sex' versus 'same-sex' and I think 'single-sex' doesn't have the same intrinsic meaning of wanting to be with your own sex and not the opposite sex that 'same-sex' does.

I think 'single-sex' might appeal more to people working in schools, hospitals or are already in the business of segregating by sex at times - ie providers.

'Same-sex' I think would appeal more to victims of DV & rape, lesbians, people wanting access spaces and services - ie users.

So I think the slant of who it is meant to appeal to needs to be considered..

buckbeak

Aye.

Katie Walker is amazing!

a yes from me

Aye

I don't think you can call it 'mumsnetter led' as per your OP. It's too close to being a Mumsnet Campaign so therefore misleading to MPs.

It's a tiny subset of Mumsnet isnt it, who engage on these issues.

Aye and thank you