Pilgrim Tucker, who spoke at the meeting last Tuesday, being stitched up on TV tomorrow?

[Datun]

She has tweeted that she was invited to talk about self ID on the Victoria Derbyshire Show being aired tomorrow at 9am.

But she had no idea that the interviewer was a transactivist. They only told her afterwards.

How much longer is this bias going to be pushed by the BBC? Will a gender critical woman be invited to interview a transactivist.? You know, in the interests of ‘fairness’.

How are women supposed to counter the #nodebate when it is being rigorously upheld by the BBC?

I sincerely hope the programme is fair and balanced, despite my misgivings...

mobile.twitter.com/PilgrimTucker/status/969544468750880774

Why don't the trans activists put their efforts into organising their own spaces / refuges like the women's movement did rather than just trying to invade women's spaces.

Excellent point DrW!

This was an excellent debate rarely allowed.

because that does not suit the TRA's

Rachel Root, happy to be called transwoman not necessarily a woman.

But says that some take great exception to that.

YES THIS IS THE POINT AND CRUX OF IT.

There are Nic and Sarah, absolutely acknowledging that trans people have specific needs that should be met.

There are Rebecca and Clara, absolutely refusing to acknowledge that women have specific needs that should be met.

WHAT A FUCKING SHOCK. Male people fail to acknowledge that female people count for anything at all.

Good point LangCleg.

I have to say that the Sarah Ditum and Dr Nic were BRILLIANT. They were totally reasonable, and the two trans activists on the whole didn't get it or were weak in their arguments.

Much better than the video before.

I don't do Twitter but has anyone looked at how this being received online?

I must say I think out of other options eg PL, Rebecca Root was a good choice if they had to choose a TW, as although there were the ignorant bigot cards played (eg hysterectomy) she did at least attempt to listen. Obviously Miranda, Debbie and Kristina would ha e been good too but I guess too much on the other side.

Glad terf was not mentioned later on.

So frustrating to watch - that utter failure to acknowledge that the big, burly bearded bloke who's rocked up to the shop as Jack the day before will have EVERY RIGHT to be in the women's toilets/gym changing rooms under self-id. BECAUSE HE IS NOT TRANS. HE IS A SEXUAL PREDATOR USING SELF ID TO GAIN EASY ACCESS TO WOMEN. Stop doing the 'poor me' and open your eyes, Rebecca!

Yes we certainly need more of this debate well done sarah and drw
No shutting down
I think the point was made stop calling us terfs by asking perfectly acceptable questions
Rebecca root starting to back track a bit do you think?

The two transwoman look really confused to me, like they hadn't really considered it from a woman's point of view before. And why would they, they are men, they have no idea what it is to be a woman. And therein lies the problem which will never be solved.

Nick and Sarah did fantastically well. We do need open respectful debate and they managed that. I thought that was great - and the body language of the two transgender women was revealing - they were being confronted by evident facts and truths and had to discuss this without silencing women by shouting transphobia - and their discomfort showed.

Now - if we can just get the transactivists to stop threatening and shutting down women's meetings and to acknowledge our right to meet and discuss these issues without threats, we'll make even more progress.

Gah - Nic and Sarah !

Nice to see four calm people in the debate and woman not being spoken over.

This is why they didn't want a debate, it all falls apart. I felt sorry for the TIMs, they have been abused by TRAs and struggling to accept reality now they are out of that bubble.

The hysterectomy argument is bound to peak a lot of women

I think the women were brilliant and loved the continued use of women and trans women. They can’t be accused of being disrespectful or transphobic. They really fought our corner in a civilised and respectful way. No one could possibly watch this and not see the glaring differences between women and trans women. Loving the fact that Sarah pointed out that women set up safe places for women at risk of violence and it would be advisable for trans to do the same. If TRAs spent as much time and money setting up safe spaces for TIMs (and they are only concerned about TIMs) as they do trying to take over women’s spaces, I can guarantee PPs would be 109% supportive of them.

GAH!!!

Pink-haired male-bodied person is the perpetrator of the Oxford Museum of Natural History transfish bollocks

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3054472-natural-history-museum-transfish-bollocks

Oh dear.

They laid them selves wide open regarding the risk assessment comment.

This is where no debate got them, they just looked so confused.

Catching up now I have a lull at work the suicide stats are on our side

Wow.

"Wait, women are actual people with opinions? Nobody ever told me that before! I are confuddled!"

The issue with no debate is that no responses are ever practised or thought about when debate is properly set up. As there's no answer to a lot of it. No debate shoots them in the foot.

Sorry to crash your thread, but I have been away, then snowed in, and have a lot of catching up to do. Would it be possible for some of you to give this thread a visit?www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3185398-Biological-SEX-MATTERS-How-many-mumsnetters-say-aye-to-this-campaign

Dr Nic, understandably, was very nervous at first, but soon found her feet and was getting into her stride as the discussion went on. The TIMs really had no other argument but trans women are women and we want into women’s spaces. I think even men who haven’t thought about the real risks to their female relatives would finally ‘get it’. I imagine this program is watched by more men than women. Anybody up for a bit of subversive education of the men in their lives. I’m going to have that program ready to play, just as my oldest comes into the kitchen. He has swallowed the trans narrative while not actually knowing what’s at risk. He also likes to comment on my shows. Comment on this ya wee skitter. 😁

Does anyone else think that VD might actually have learnt a lot from this debate? I wonder if she’ll do a little more research and reach peak trans?