"Wrong bathroom" sign in university toilet

[PinkChestnut]

I peak transed a while ago, but then have leveled out recently and taken the live and let live approach in my thinking.

However this sign in a Scottish university bathroom, designed by transpeople, bothers me.

"they are using the facilities they feel safe in - please do not take that right away from them"

So if there's a petite young woman in the toilets beside a 6'3 muscular male appearanced person and she feels uncomfortable, where does she go to feel safe? The disabled toilet?

Also "don't challenge them" sounds wrong to me. Like they're untouchable. What if they're acting inappropriate?

What I object to is saying all trans people may rape us.

Find where someone says that and I will give £10 to the charity of your choice.

We are saying there is an issue with letting anyone self ID and enter what we’re previously female only spaces. It poses a risk to females.

Not just in toilets. In prisons. In hospitals. In changing rooms. In gyms.

Oh, fuck me, let's get the bingo cards out.

We've had "I'm tall, am I not allowed to use women's loos", "Women do it to", "Jim Crow" and "I've never been attacked by someone I assumed was trans".

Any more for any more?

This pretence that a tall woman or a butch woman are basically the same as men is incredibly misogynistic

Wasn't there a mother who convinced a daughter she was trans based on the fact the DD was quite big.

My own DD was working at a university a couple of weeks ago and came home thanking me for not insisting she go to uni.

There were communal toilets and you had to walk past men peeing in urinals to get to the stalls.

DD just thought it was embarrassing for all concerned.

FWIW she does know someone who decided against this university because of the communal toilet situation

MM, Of course we can't make toilets 100% safe. But women have to constantly risk assess situations, and being physically vulnerable in a space with a man is a higher risk situation than being in that space with a woman. Unless you have been living in a matriarchy somewhere I don't believe you don't know this. It's just virtue signalling. Maybe if you had a daughter you'd see it differently. Or maybe if you were shorter

Fish Fingers - how do you tell which women are rapists and which aren't? Your argument makes no sense. You can't eradicate all risk. Other women may attack you. Additionally men in male toilets may attack other men.

Yes we are vulnerable in a toilet. But you're vulnerable whatever the situation. Having a man who identifies as a woman in that same toilet does not mean that the risk is higher or lower.

Wasn't there a mother who convinced a daughter she was trans based on the fact the DD was quite big

That was the woman in the Guardian last week.

how do you tell which women are rapists and which aren't?

It’s the ones without penises who aren’t rapists.

ifunisex spaces are okay why can't trans identifying/ gender questioning males use the men's toilets?

Or even pushing for unisex toilet as a third alternative ?

Because decent people might recognise the potential distress it might cause to have someone who looks male in a female only space.

Didn’t a trans identifying male in Canada repeatedly try to gain employment in a women’s refuge despite knowing that their presence there would deeply distress the women within ? Anyone have the link ?

Having a man who identifies as a woman in that same toilet does not mean that the risk is higher or lower.

Taking away my right to challenge a person with a penis for being in the women’s toilets does make that risk higher.

TIM have similar offending patterns to other men. So they do present a higher risk than a woman. And men anyway are more violent than women. Really, have you been living under a rock?
Also, women can't rape people.

Maggie

Like I said. Men commit 98% of all sexual violence. Therefore I am infinitely safer in a female only space and it is very unlikely I will need to be afraid of a random woman.

Are you deliberately being obtuse ?

Should gay men be in the women's loos too, then, in case they get gay bashed in the men's? They just want to pee, too.

And one for the lurkers: the comparison with racial segregation is invalid, because racial segregation is about the dominant race (whites) excluding the disadvantaged race (blacks), in order to exert power over them, and for spurious reasons. Sex segregation enables the disadvantaged sex (women) to have places of refuge, privacy and comfort away from the dominant sex (men). The power dynamic is completely different, the reasons and functions are completely different.

The lack of public loos for women is a direct barrier to access to public life for women. We moved on from that in the UK (many countries haven't, like swathes of India), and I'll be damned if it gets dismantled on my watch by males who haven't even bothered to understand why we sex segregate in the first place.

Yeah I never get why the men's toilets aren't safe for TIMs but women aren't jeopardised by the presence of men and are supposed to just accept it (without question according to this poster).

Oh and furthermore - if a woman does decide to sexual assault me - I have a much greater chance of being able to fight back and get away than if it were a man.

You see the vast majority of males are bigger and stronger than females. That’s why we have seperate sex sports. Another thing we would like to keep since biological males regardless of how they feel inside outperform biological females.

What I object to is saying all trans people may rape us.

Where are the posts saying this, MagggieMay?

It's not trans people anyone's worried about.
It's men.

How can we tell who's a man and who's a man self identified as a woman?
You can't.
That's the point.

3 out of 4 rapes are perpetrated by someone the victim knows, so if we are going to play "twist the facts" then by rights we should also never enter a toilet with someone we know either.

And to the poster that suggested if I was shorter or had a daughter I'd understand... you know nothing about my family.

And even a man who does identify as a woman could still pose a risk. The trans label doesn't suddenly equate to sainthood.

I’ve never entered a toilet with a male I know. That’s because we have sex segregated toilets.

Maggie
Noone is saying trans people are more likely to rape someone! The point is that if a university is banning women from challenging a man who they feel IS up to no good in the toilets, the woman will have no recourse to security.
This is not about size, or thinking all transpeople are evil. It's about removing the power to object when men DO transgress boundaries. And a certain sort of man, especially given the invitation, WILL transgress these boundaries, and get off on doing so.
If you think men like this don't exist then you have been very, very lucky.

I’m also still unsure about how pointing out 98% of sexual violence is committed by males is fact twisting.

I'm not going to waste any more time looking at this post, but please please think, just for a second, about the hate you're spewing into the world, and the assumptions you're making about people who you've never even met.

Please also remember that most of you are getting your information from people who are not well educated and who just have massive amounts of hatred towards the world. And if you need evidence of this, please read that mumsnet post where people took themselves off the organ donation list in case trans people got their wombs. Despite this not being an actual operation that happens. If you put unresearched hatred out in the world it causes more hatred and at the end of it are people who are actually hurt. Like people waiting for a heart donation or someone who wishes to live as a woman and not out herself every time she needs the loo.

If I see one of these, I'm defacing it.