Can Pro-lifers be feminists?

[DevilsAdvocate123]

I am personally pro-choice, but in my 60 years, I have encountered pro-life feminists. Many of which asked that many other feminists try to "revoke their feminist cards", since they are pro-life.

I've asked them if it were sexist to be pro-life, and they explained these points to me:

-They entirely believe in the equality of men and women
-The reasoning behind the pro-life stance has nothing to do with sex
-If men could bear children, their opinion of abortion would be the exact same, as the reasoning behind the pro-life stance has nothing to do with sex
-They want to save babies of all genders, as the reasoning behind the pro-life stance has nothing to do with sex

I'm a fairly reasonable person. I've had discussions with liberals that think socialism is evil, I've had discussions with gays that believe a private business can do business with whomever it chooses, and I've talked with gun rights advocates that staunchly believe in background checks. I like to hear people out. I get things.

In this instance, I believe I understand where the pro-life feminists are coming from when they say they are still feminists.

Should the feminist community embrace these people into the community and work together, or should these people be shunned from the feminist community and not welcome?

I don't agree with selling the tablets online, the risks are massive.
What if your in an abusive relationship and the partner forced the pregnant woman to take the pills?

That's why they should be carefully regulated and yes should be illegal to buy online.

and it was done through the BPA, was free on the NHS (bet that stings with some people)

Not with me.

What links are you referring to Missy?

The independent and guardian articles you posted on last page,

The 21year old... procured her abortion buying abortion tablets illegally on the internet- on a foetus that must have been 20+ week to see genitals, I'm guessing over 24 to explain why she did this......the tablets need to be carefully regulated for safeguarding, it needs to be illegal. The tablets are not for this gestation limit. What she did was unsafe for her, cruel to foetus. It was utterly stupid, reckless. I'm on the side of the law in this case.

The guardian article- forced birth, misleading as it was elective c section- the baby was over the 24 week time limit. She isn't forced to keep the baby, but it was at a stage of development where it could be born alive and where it is illegal to abort.

I don't see any miscarriage of justice in either of those articles.. the opposite in fact,
If you really want to protect women then abortion medication needs to be controlled very closely, not obtainable online for sure.

Leads to this
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-38960437

In 2012, 40-year-old Sarah Catt was jailed for eight years for terminating her pregnancy with pills she had bought online when she was 39 weeks pregnant.

Natalie Towers, 26, was sentenced to two-and-a half-years in 2015 after using the pill to terminate her pregnancy while she was between 32 and 34 weeks pregnant.

I agree that it shouldn't be possible to procure abortion pills online rather than through proper medical channels.

And your point about women in abusive relationships is a good one too, and also applies to younger women who may very much want to keep their baby but face huge family pressure not to. At the moment, if she can conceal her pregnancy for some time then she gets past the point of no return and her partner / family cannot pressure her into terminating (unless they go down the back street option). Abortion on demand until term removes this protection.

(I know, no one should be forced to terminate, but the reality is that they are)

Re men supporting later term abortion in order to allow them to shirk responsibilities... Well, yes, that's almost certainly the case for many men.

But, given that generally older women support lowering the current legal limit, I would suggest that this is because many of those women have been pregnant themselves and have a greater sense of what a 16 week pregnancy feels like compared to a 24 week pregnancy compared to a term pregnancy, and are basing their views on their personal experience. Men cannot have this experience and thus the distinction is less for them

Yes olennas..
I can think of others too...
Child sexual exploitation
Child sexual abuse
Sex trafficking
If people can buy abortion tablets online then a doctor is missing the opportunity for a face to face consultation which could protect a victim. I'm against them online, I'm against people leaving clinics with them.
And yeah I think your right- in some cases women are more likely to be against raising abortion limit than men.

". At the moment, if she can conceal her pregnancy for some time then she gets past the point of no return and her partner / family cannot pressure her into terminating (unless they go down the back street option). Abortion on demand until term removes this protection."

And that was a very good point. And another reason why not supporting abortion to term makes doesn't make someone "anti-feminist".

Saying that men aren't allowed to have their opinions heard and should just shut up is very similar to the #nodebate rubbish we're getting with transgender rights.
Everyone has the right to an opinion on what the rights or lack of rights of a fetus should be.

"Everyone has the right to an opinion on what the rights or lack of rights of a fetus should be."

Everyone has a right to an opinion. Men should not have a say in what actually happens.

I disagree. It's an issue for society, not just women. Though what women say about the effect on women is obviously of far greater import than what men may say about the effect on women.

I would also suggest that pro-life feminism argues that abortion is a sticking plaster solution to the real problems...
That women struggle financially to raise children, it affects their careers, they don't have adequate support etc.
They recognise abortion is not always free choice- pressure from partners, family etc.
Abortion is a symptom not a solution.

There are groups out there for pro-life feminism - is feminists for life.
An extract from their mission statement;
Abortion is a reflection that we have not met the needs of women. Abortion masks the unmet needs of women in the workplace, schools, home, and society. In society — the poor, the working poor, women in difficult and often abusive relationships, and students and women in the workplace whose basic needs are ignored.

Feminists for Life is dedicated to systematically eliminating the root causes that drive women to abortion — primarily, the lack of practical resources and support — through holistic, woman-centered solutions. Women deserve better than abortion.

I'll be eternally greatful to #womenonweb that supplied me with the abortion pill
I had an online consultation with a doctor. I made a donation as they help women in poverty all over the world who could never afford to buy the pills.
I honestly would have taken my own life if I couldn't access an abortion
However I was told if I was suffering with a mental illness having an abortion wouldn't help 🤔
Funnily enough as soon as I ended the pregnancy I no longer felt suicidal
No amount of counselling would have helped
I didn't want to be pregnant and I'd have done anything to end it

I do t want to deny women the map nor do I want to deny women access to abortion at any stage.

I beleive in abortion as early as possible with the current law on aborting healthy foetuses sitting about right and possibly needing review to come down a week or two.

I believe that abortion in the case of a baby with a fatal abnormality should be allowed, as it is as present.

I personally think the biggest issue is the difference in the law that means that abortion is not freely available to all women in the Uk on an equal basis and this should be changed as soon as possible.

*don’t

I think men should have a say, but not necessarily a right to it. Ultimately because a woman is hosting the child, she HAS to have the final word. If she chooses to involve a man in decision making process, great, but that really depends on the specific relationship both parties have.

There are some exceptionally rare circumstances where the male could feel genuinely aggrieved that he has no say in the pregnancy, but those are very rare situations indeed.

Bertrand,

Unless you want ‘man’ to take no responsibility for what happens (no male taxes to fund abortion, no male obstetricians etc etc), they have rights around formulating the laws.

Rights and responsibilities always go together.

Here's a strange situation...

A female sex offender gets pregnant via a minor. Should the minor or his family have a say in matters?

"Unless you want ‘man’ to take no responsibility for what happens (no male taxes to fund abortion, no male obstetricians etc etc), they have rights around formulating the laws."

Really? You reckon men should have a say in what a woman does to her own body or they don't pay their taxes?

Well how would you propose removing the rights of the men in parliament to vote for the laws Bertrand?

Bertrand,

As I have pointed out many, many times on this thread, I do not accept that this is purely a woman doing something to her own body. I have, again, many times reiterated all the stakeholders in an abortion.

And, absolutely. In the same way as I would expect suitably expert women to have as much say on the guidelines and funding around prostate surgery as men. I just do not accept this division of society into two halves that you seem to embrace. We are all members of the same society.

This is not just about the woman. It is also about the fetus. Why shouldn't other members of society have a voice in the debate about the interplay between the rights of a fetus and the rights of the woman carrying it?
To a lesser extent, it is also about the man who helped conceive the fetus.