Evidence of misandry on Feminist chat.

[UpstartCrow]

The last few days, there have been several claims of misandry on Feminist Chat. Please post examples here using a link and screen shot.

Thank you.

Bertrand

As a man, how can I do something about male violence?

Other than not commit it myself (I don't), and encourage my son to not either, (he is too young but when he is old enough I will), and not associate or encourage anybody who thinks that it's ok?

Am I still collectively responsible, regardless of my behaviour?

There was a thread on AIBU about a woman who after several abusive relationships said she didn't like men anymore and should she seek help for feeling like this.

A lot of posters could understand her thoughts about it but some piled in and told her she needed counselling and that she was daft to think this way.

Also I think that complaining about wife work is valid, and there were two long threads on the issue, in Feminist Chat and they very interesting discussion. Mostly the replies on Chat/AIBU suggest the wife 'train' the partner because, of course, he doesn't have a brain and is incapable of doing it himself. I find that incredibly patronising to men.

You are doing something though PatriarchyPersonified, but I would also suggest that you treat women as your equal - which I'm sure you already do.

Actions and words are powerful when combined.

I’d suggest the women who are doing it are the ones who treat the men in their lives like helpless children incapable of finding the washing machine

Basically..
"Yes it is very different" !

I'll try to expand, fixing a computer is important complicated work that only He has the intelligence and talents to understand. It's also a one off. Man's job. Would come with a good salary in a work setting.

Cleaning up dirt or doing washing we all know is very easy. Very boring, repetitive and constant. Very low paid if done professionally. Woman's job.

Men often use the "can't see dirt" to get out of doing something so beneath them and women go along with it. I mean let's come off it of course they can see it, but it's not followed by a response to assume they should do anything about it. It all works out very comfortably for the man and he is not insulted.
The art of strategic incompetence may even be at play.

It is also not offensive to men to be accused of "not seeing dirt". (unless it is, then they won't be, because they'd be the clean type).

So in your two examples, computer fixing and cleaning, both adhere to the social order of men undertaking important duties, women boring background duties.

If a man pats my head (metaphorically) and tells me to leave him to fix my computer, I count that as misogyny - he doesn't think that I can do it because I'm just a woman. The cleaning thing is the same in reverse, so surely must by misandry - just because it benefits the patriarchy I don't think it makes it any different

Sorry I copy and pasted the wrong quote!

Not sure what the equivalent of a Hail Mary is for the sin of hurting a man's feelings.

I suppose we'd have to ask a Worshipful Penis for something appropriate. I think I'll bunk off school when we have that lesson.

In the event that there are any men lurking who genuinely do want to help stop male violence rather than just troll feminist spaces wasting the time of the women in them, the way that you can help is to talk about violence towards women and the sexist attitudes that contribute to it to other men. Not to women, especially not feminists. We already know that there's a problem. Go talk to other men - the ones who're the problem are far more likely to listen to you than to us.

I don't think the screenshot is an example of misandry.

And, no, I don't believe that there is misandry on Mumsnet. For me, misandry has to be systemic and systematic. I do occasionally see, however, criticism of men - or a specific man - but that always strikes me as someone ranting or letting off steam. The difference is that there is no power imbalance with the power weighted toward women in those cases.

I didn't see the thread about someone setting fire to someone's genitals. I wouldn't find it funny, no matter which sex was the target.

Ohhh thanks Bit still half asleep but now I get it. Basically the complaints about misanthropy are that any discussion between women about self ID is automatically invalid if women aren't being scrupulously kind, fair and polite about men at all times?

Sure I've heard that one before.....

I think there are ducking stools and scolds bridles for correcting this sort of thing.

Anyway sorry it also wouldn't count as misandry because you aren't saying
"All men are incapable of housework"

Would men really be offended by being seen as incapable of doing housework so left out of it, or would they be secretly pleased?

Well, OP? Thoughts about the thread you started?

The first example given was was by LassWiADelicateAir, ''AIBU to look at a little boy and wondering if he will be a rapist.''

Lass didn't say that thread was called out by members of the Feminist Board as being unreasonable and goady fuckery, before it was deleted.

If I was offended that someone thought I was incapable of doing something I'd try to prove that I was in fact more than capable. Interesting that this is never what men who claim to be offended that they're perceived as being incapable of basic domestic tasks do.

the statement 'all men are potentially violent' is no more valid than the statement 'all black people are potentially criminals

Hey look. Another example of an anti feminist argument which relies on the deployment of racist stereotypes.

Skin colour doesn't predict violence. Maleness does.

Patriarchy- do you call out other men when they make rape/violence jokes? Do you talk to other men about your feminist principles? Do you monitor very carefully the messages your son gets about how men should deal with conflict/powerful emotions? Do you acknowledge that male violence is a male issue? Do you accept that male violence is an issue at all? Do you understand why women might be wary of men? If you do all of those things you’re well in the way.

Kittens

How do you know what men talk about? From my perspective, nobody that I know thinks that violence towards women, rape or misogyny is acceptable. (And I work in a very male dominated environment) unnacceptable behaviours in the news (Chef Evans etc) are often discussed. The way we view them would surprise you.

The reason why I comment on these kind of threads (I can't speak for other men) is because I take exception to the 1 dinensional characterisation of men as all lazy, sexist, potential rapists that is often discussed on here as if it is a given.

The second example given by FrustratedTeddyLamp is another misremembered post.

''On the manfriday one in feminist activism one poster suggested going into the mens changing rooms and insulting and degrading their genitals on the basis they were men, even saying she'd somewhat hope it happened to her DS as he isnt concerned about self ID''

Turned out to be different from how Frustrated remembered it.

The reason why I comment on these kind of threads (I can't speak for other men) is because I take exception to the 1 dinensional characterisation of men as all lazy, sexist, potential rapists that is often discussed on here as if it is a given.

Thanks for confirming that policing women's language is more important to you than actually doing anything to prevent male violence. Not that it wasn't already obvious, but nice to have it spelled out.

(I haven't been here for very long - how does Mumsnet usually handle trolls? Because I'd hate to see this board end up being 90% women attempting to reason with MRAs. Which is most likely the goal for them and why the bat signal was raised.)

I take exception to the 1 dinensional characterisation of men as all lazy, sexist, potential rapists that is often discussed on here as if it is a given.

But I take exception to what you have just posted because I don't see this on the Feminist Chat board.

I see the truth of what is being discussed and it does make for uncomfortable reading, especially when you factor in the statistics, which are shocking.

My son has said that he is wary of men and the potential of what they can do (he is sixteen). He has felt this way for some time as well. He told me it was because of what he has seen and heard (he goes to an all boy's school, though thankfully the sixth form is mixed sex).

Am I still collectively responsible, regardless of my behaviour?

The most hardened feminist would probably say you are responsible due to your apathy.

Eg you are eagerly invested in coming onto feminist chats to advise women how to do feminism better etc etc
So... you could channel that energy to activism and help us protect women?
Call out your male friends every single time you come across misogyny?
Help campaign against prostitution / porn?

Just wondering if larrygrylls has got back to a proper computer yet.

The idea that women can't be guilty of the equivalent of misogyny because there are no power inbalances in their favour seems to be very convenient. It seems like letting yourself off too easily. See also non-white people can't be racist.

Hate and prejudice exist independently of the ability to act on them.

Kittens

Unless MN have changed their terms and conditions recently, there are no rules against opposing opinions. I have as much right to be on this forum as you do.

If you want to debate somewhere where your assertions aren't challenged then feel free but that isn't really a debate is it, it's an echo chamber.

I see a lot of men on here who routinely take the view that rape, violence and unnacceptable behaviours are by definition, unacceptable and should be called out and challenged.

Where we differ is the degree to which we agree and on the finer points.

I'm part of a group collectively responsible for a horrible history of colonialism, as a white Brit. Curiously enough I don't feel the need to turn up on, say, forums where Indian people are talking about their experiences to scold them for saying anything negative about white Brits.

No, P, where we differ is in that I'm honest enough to admit that what the statistics are telling us about violence is true and important, and you're not.

(And now we appear to be embarking on the sealioning portion of the how to be an angry man on a feminist forum lifecycle.)