Evidence of misandry on Feminist chat.

[UpstartCrow]

The last few days, there have been several claims of misandry on Feminist Chat. Please post examples here using a link and screen shot.

Thank you.

Much as men should challenge misogynistic behaviour, I think feminists should challenge misandric behaviour amongst their ranks.

People like MisandryMermaid and her 'male tears' mugs don't really help the credibility of what is a genuine cause and what worries me is that many youngsters are more likely to be exposed to this type of Tumblr feminism than they are to venture into forums like this one where intelligent discourse takes place.

I suggest we all just ignore him.

I was responding to a question of what I thought should be done.

Ignore the inconvenient truth if you want, but sadly the general public outside of this very idiosyncratic sphere are unlikely to do so.

I'm willing to bet that this is why the words 'misandry' and 'feminism' are so often raised in the same discussion.

Cue the ad hominem attacks and fingers in ears...

I think those are good points bear
It's hard for me to suggest anything as I don't really know for sure what convos/behaviours happen in groups of men. I'd hope that men would call out sexism and misogyny in groups but I don't know if they actually do.
Mind you, birds of a feather flock together so maybe good guys don't hang round with arseholes and vice versa.

“What do you think we should be doing Bertrand?“
This is what I said earlier..”I DO expect them to speak up about male violence to other men and make it clear they find it unacceptable. I expect them to educate their boys in how to manage emotion and frustration. I expect them to speak out when other men make rape jokes. I expect them them to reject porn and prostitution. I expect them to DO SOMETHING!!!”

One thing I would take slight issue with upthread is the idea that men do not walk around having to risk-assess other random men. Let me assure you that at least some of us do (perhaps not in every situation all the time, but I'm afraid often enough).

I would, then, suggest that you try to imagine what it might be like to have to do that in every situation all the time. I get it that there are times men also feel at risk but it is orders of magnitude greater for women.

Do you need to do a risk assessment so ingrained that you barely realise you are doing it every time a man sits next to you on public transport? Or any time a man you don't know speaks to you, even if it is a public place? Or any time you go to a public toilet where there is a corridor including the men's and ladies doors separate from the public area? How often do you cross the street to avoid walking past a man or to check that a man isn't following you? The list is endless. And we women have to do that so automatically that, as I said, it's hard to imagine being someone who doesn't have to do that.

That is the point. As I said before, it's not "all men", it's "all places men are".

I recognise you are trying though - thanks!

“I was responding to a question of what I thought should be done”

And your response was to get rid of “Male Tears” mugs. OK. What next?

I recognise misogyny when I see it. And I see no reason why I should be required to engage constructively with a misogynist or take into any account what a misogynist has to say.

I see misogyny when a man arrives on a feminist board, lecturing women who are discussing male violence among themselves about how they are not doing it correctly in his view.

I do not see misogyny when a man arrives on a feminist board and says, "What can I do to help?"

Here are some ways to help:

acalltomenuk.org.uk/

www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/men.php

But the OT is about misandry in feminism...

How about we go ahead and chip/ankle bracelet anyone who commits a violent crime of any description, and they need to go 3-5 years with no incidents to have it removed?

You could have an app letting you know if anyone was chipped/braceleted is nearby, who they are and what they did so you could give them a wide berth.

Sounds quite like the current house arrest/curfew type of tagging and not a bad idea.

I have literally never heard the term 'male tears' except on this thread, and on a thread about feminism on another site. On there it was brought up by a man who said the phrase was common among feminists as feminists just hate men and blame them for the worlds ills (erm, no just for male violence) and that talking about 'male violence' makes ordinary men feel attacked and then ordinary men turn to hating feminists too. I made the point of my husband not getting butthurt when I talk about male violence as he knows he is not one of the men I as talking about and I was told that my husband DID feel attacked however I have 'trained' him into being submissive, that he will be upset and seething at me in his head though

Thing is, the feminists on here (even if I disagree with them on some things) are not IMO the same breed as many of the more toxic Tumblr feminists who often seem to have a near-TRA level of bile. I'd imagine that you may not be in the circles where you'd come into contact with them.

I imagine most feminists would be delighted if more men allowed themselves the luxury of male tears. It's not something I'd sneer at. It would be a hell of a lot less destructive than the current situation where some men feel that the only negative emotion allowed is anger, because that doesn't make you "weak". I imagine there'd be fewer schools being shot up in America.

A starting point would be to encourage sons to release emotion through tears rather than release emotions in aggression.

Consciousness raising can take many forms.
In the workplace do you take credit for female contributions? Do you speak over women? Do you assume a woman is less knowledgeable before knowing her position? Challenge pay gaps when they are known? If you are in a position to do so, do you automatically hire men over women who are equally qualified OR are you conscious of sexism?

Women experience all of the above, but told we're imagining it or it's brushed off.

Feminists "bang on" about lots of things that are uncomfortable to hear but it's vital otherwise nothing would happen.

Men at the BBC have actually taken pay cuts to make it fairer! Amazing. (Although mildly grumpy the women's pay didn't go up)

And I promise I will help you on board without any misandry at all.

I appreciate that it makes some people uncomfortable me being a male and coming on here and upsetting the apple cart by disagreeing with posters.

I don't actually like arguments but the reason I feel they're sometimes necessarily is because this isn't just a harmless debate. Many posters on here are politically active and try to influence policy and legislation. Without a balanced discourse we risk ending up with situations like the one in American universities where young men were being expelled without any manner of due process based on little more than word of mouth and universities were allowed to operate almost as kangaroo courts.

Another poignant example is the recent trans madness where an ideology has been allowed to progress unchallenged to ultimately become a parodical situation.

Misandry isn't real
No institutional power behind it
Worry about something else

I imagine most feminists would be delighted if more men allowed themselves the luxury of male tears.

Well yes. Part of the issue is toxic masculinity. Men are not allowed to cry as its not 'manly' and such. I do not think any real feminist would have issues at all with men crying, its healthy. What is not healthy is bottling it all up and exploding in a huge rage instead.

Never even heard of the word. I presume it is something that isn't approved of.

I appreciate that it makes some people uncomfortable me being a male and coming on here and upsetting the apple cart by disagreeing with posters.

I obviously cannot speak for other posters, but I definitely like people coming on to show the 'other side' so to speak. A debate is not a debate while everyone agrees. This is why I am desperate for someone who supports self-ID to come on and tell me exactly WHY they support it (not just a 'you are being big meanies' type reply)

I like my opinions to be challenged tbh. I am sure many others do too.

"I appreciate that it makes some people uncomfortable me being a male and coming on here and upsetting the apple cart by disagreeing with posters." Really? Have you disagreed with anyone? I'm struggling to find out what your opinions are. You're certainly not putting forward any solutions. And why on earth would anyone feel uncomfortable?

He disagrees with the definition of misandry.
I use the dictionary definition myself.

We'll, pratcatcher, As long as you are doing all the things Patodp and Bertrand have suggested, and try a little positive discourse with the tumblr feminists you speak of, then job done.

Thanks for dropping by.

I will never understand why ordinary men get so defensive when women speak of the men who do attack and assault women on a regular basis.

Nor will I ever understand the need to minimize male violence and its effects on society. Male violence really is a worldwide epidemic. Yet saying this is being hysterical and man hati9ng. I don;t hate men, I have many men who I love in my life. But I do know that men (as a class) are a danger to women (as a class) and I do go through life wary and alert, especially if I am in a situation where I am alone with a strange man who I do not know. This does not mean I think all men will attack me, it means I know all men have the potential to,l and that a lot of them act on this. And that the ones who act do not come with a warning sign. If this (necessary) wariness means I hate men, or blame them all for the actions of a few (I would dispute strongly the 1% figure) then so be it.