Evidence of misandry on Feminist chat.

[UpstartCrow]

The last few days, there have been several claims of misandry on Feminist Chat. Please post examples here using a link and screen shot.

Thank you.

Killing is not the only form of violence women suffer from men.

1 in 4 women are victims of domestic violence in their lifetime - I don't believe all that violence is perpetrated by 1% of men.

As datun says - we are also talking about rape and sexual harassment - definitely not only 1% of men.

I'm just pointing out what I see to be a serious problem which alienates a large proportion of potential allies who would likely help in effecting change if the patriarchy is as prevalent as asserted.

Okay. So publicising the problem, campaigning against it, lobbying for law change, talking about the statistics of male violence, drilling down into the causes, keeping men out of rape refugees, supporting juries reading about rape myths and basically highlighting, as much as possible what the problem is,

makes any man who reads about it, determined to do nothing

...because we need to do all that and then what?

Say please?

Your attitude is the entire reason these things are perpetuated.

You are blaming feminists for your own lack of spine.

If they do this, then they are lumping THEMSELVES in with the really vicious men who hurt women.

My point precisely! The only blokes you hear from about this are the blokes to avoid. The normal ones already get it.

I have done plenty of consciousness-raising sessions with young women - about consent, red flags to look for and be aware of, self esteem, etc etc etc. The DH when I'm doing one?

Does anyone need a lift? Need some snacks buying? Want me to make any sandwiches?

Not:

A male perspective is vital! How dare you exclude a male perspective! This is why everyone hates feminism!

Likewise, DH has on occasion run similar sessions with boys he coaches in sport. My reaction?

Does anyone need a lift? Need some snacks buying? Want me to make any sandwiches?

Not:

A female perspective is vital! How dare you exclude a female perspective! This is why everyone hates men!

The very fact that particular men complain about women discussing male violence and/or shout exclusion is the very reason those particular men need excluding from the bloody discussion!

prat

The MeToo campaign ran to 11,000,000 posts inside 24 hours.

If your man centric view is determined to focus on the male perpetrators, not the female victims, do you think it is only 1% of men who perpetuated those 11 million assaults?

Does "respecting your boundary" include not being allowed to voice my opinions?

I explicitly asserted a boundary. Please do not address me again on this thread.

I think concentrating on murder as the bar for violence is utterly bizarre.

I didn't realise men were so hopeless that they would be prepared to stand back and see women be abused and murdered because their feelings have been hurt at being lumped in with the 'errant 1%'.

If they do this, then they are lumping THEMSELVES in with the really vicious men who hurt women.

^^this.

Or do you think there is a problem with my finance or you don't.

If you don't, you're part of the problem.

If you do, bloody well do something.

Stop telling feminists that you will only help if they suck your dick first.

Because that's you, right there, in your fictitious 1%.

*oops

That was meant to read either you think there is a problem with male violence or not.

Do discussions about racism alienate potential allies? Or should people just deal with racism?

So do I, Terftastic. For the sake of disclosure, I am male.

I do happen to think that the majority of men are at least halfway decent, but in no would I say it is a vast majority, and to say that only 1% of men are capable of violence is palpable bollocks.

One thing I would take slight issue with upthread is the idea that men do not walk around having to risk-assess other random men. Let me assure you that at least some of us do (perhaps not in every situation all the time, but I'm afraid often enough).

So, we're back to "women, just be nicer. If only you were just nicer everything be fine" Funny how we always end up there.

Pratcather, if you want a three point plan on how to help, you could try:

(i) not act like an arsehole towards women
(ii) call out other men when they are acting like arseholes towards women (where it is safe and reasonable to do so)
(iii) don't go onto feminist message boards to piss over their chips for your own diversion and amusement

Give it a try. If every man did that, things would improve a hundredfold overnight. Up to you if you want to be part of the problem or of the solution.

I too find it bizarre that anything less than murder doesn't need to be focussed on. I suspect if Prat were one of the 12000 (iirc) British men who are raped a year, he'd consider differently.
I also find it bizarre that the majority of men are apparently alienated by these bitchy angry feminists, and yet, as Prat say, most women don't describe themselves as feminists (men have after all done a good job of making feminism into a dirty word). You'd think these men that like non-feminist women would attempt to challenge violence for their sake, if not for the sake of feminists, who after all, get what they deserve...

Thanks bear

I think concentrating on murder as the bar for violence is utterly bizarre.

Yes, me too. Very strange and not something I have seen before, though a 'different' tactic for sure.

I think the reason prat name changed says more about prat than it does about this board

Ok. This is for any men on here.

Lots of women are saying that they have all experienced anything from low level harassment to actual physical violence from men.

1. Do you believe them?
2. If you do, what do you think should be done about it?

I wasn't trying to be goady in my earlier posts. My principle point could probably be condensed down to the argument that misandry doesn't really help the feminist cause in any way.

Aside from that, I probably have similar ideals to many feminists in the outcomes I'd like to see (as opposed to those who would rather women remained subjugated, for instance).

My principle point could probably be condensed down to the argument that misandry doesn't really help the feminist cause in any way.

Has anyone suggested otherwise?

For what it's worth, I do think there are occasional posts that cross the line into 'misandry' (if such a thing exists). It doesn't really bother me - at the end of the day, it's punching upwards rather than punching downwards, and within certain parameters, I think it's fair game. If this place was genuinely hate-fuelled as the likes of Prat would have us believe then there would be far more vitriol.

2. If you do, what do you think should be done about it?

I'm not a man, but I don't know the answer to this.
On this board, the answer given is often "men should just stop doing it".
But that doesn't seem to be working.
The men who don't do it, don't do it. And the men who do do it, don't stop doing it.

So, Prat. What needs to be done?

1. Do you believe them?

Yes, of course. I've experienced both as a man so it would be obtuse for me not to believe it happened to women. Also, whilst I don't think it's a competition, I have no difficulty believing that it's on average worse for women than men.

2. If you do, what do you think should be done about it?

(i) not act like an arsehole towards women
(ii) call out other men when they are acting like arseholes towards women (where it is safe and reasonable to do so)

Beyond that, on a structural level, I'm not sure. As a broad brush proposition I believe the state does more good than harm, so I'd like to see proper policing and punishments for crimes against women. I recognise that soft approaches have their place too but I think in the final analysis compulsion is the only thing some of these fuckers will listen to. But I'm reluctant to venture too much here because I don't want to be seen to be telling women how to do feminism - I know that goes down like a led balloon here and can understand why.

"But I'm reluctant to venture too much here because I don't want to be seen to be telling women how to do feminism - I know that goes down like a led balloon here and can understand why"

You don't have to tell women how to do feminism. Policing male behaviour shouldn't be the work of feminists. I want to know what men think they should do about it.

I think it comes down to doing what we can to change attitudes by way of education (with a focus on younger people), and effective enforcement against those who step out of line (with an emphasis on the latter - men on the whole know when they're acting like pricks). The granularity of that - I really don't know. There's certainly some good stuff happening but it clearly isn't enough.

But at the end of the day I do think it comes down to individual morality, and the onus on each of us is not to be an arsehole on an individual level. Socialisation and all that, but men aren't an homogenous group, and plenty of us manage to conduct ourselves within reasonable parameters despite the influences around us.

What do you think we should be doing Bertrand?

Incidentally, I realise that these suggestions are entirely mundane, but that's the sad thing: the problem is on one level a fucking banal one. It's not like we're trying to cure smallpox or send someone to the moon.