If you're pro Self ID for trans people please could you explain it to me?

[ReluctantCamper]

I have never debated with anyone who's pro self ID because they invariably post 'transwomen are women' on threads and never return.

When I have arrived at a thought out position I'm keen to debate it with others who think differently to test my reasoning - that's how I feel now.

I know we have a number of pro self ID lurkers - anyone feel like explaining to me why it's a good idea?

I promise to carefully read what you say and take it seriously, I don't promise to agree.

Come on, it's my birthday, someone treat me!

@thebewilderness Thank you for posting this. Fabulously terrible. And so fucking sad.

kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-blogger-starling-schrodinger%E2%80%99s-rapist-or-a-guy%E2%80%99s-guide-to-approaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/

@Myunicornfliessideways "Interesting reading the comments on that article bewilderness . Somewhat depressing to see women immediately saying 'but what if the man setting off your warning signals/invading your boundaries has Autism?"

I know it is crazy because women have autism too and can find social situations extremely difficult. So as one poster said, I will be having the conversation with my aspie son much younger than I expected or words to that affect!

That was nine years ago and yet it is impossible for women to talk about male violence without someone bringing the NAMALT as though we are children in need of correction.

Italian yes exactly. It drives me particularly nuts as I worked for years with teenaged boys with Autism and with learning difficulties which made it still harder for them to figure out social rules and expectations, and they and their families and worked so hard on this kind of thing. Any of them could easily make an accidental social mistake and they'd all prefer people just simply telling them so in plain terms without dressing it up in social clutter to try and unpack. The last thing that would have helped them was women making special exceptions or treating them differently because of their needs, they wanted the information to know how to do things by themselves.

they and their families and worked so hard on this kind of thing

This was also my experience working with youngsters with ASC. I worked in a special unit within a mainstream school. Social interactions and expectations were probably the number one concern for the students themselves and their parents. We ran sessions for them about friendships, dating etc, using social stories and discussion.

Flamingo. Damn those wormholes! The above tweet had a response criticising Kevin's view of his femininity, to which he immediately backtracked and said he didn't mean ALL women, and he has a new phone which is why he typed the wrong thing. Hilarious!

I'm not sure Kev is going to win the admiration of Lees et al at this rate. He is not remotely aggressive enough to be a proper TRA.

Bewilder, thank you for sharing that excellent article.

Had a very chilled out evening with a few mates tonight and have not really ever talked to them about this... they are all centre-left 30 something blokes, let's all get along, live and let live... managed to peak trans them instantly with the sports issue - helped nicely by Hannah Mouncey/Laurel weightlfter... although did pro trans the super-sporty one of them for a while when he realised he could self ID and become a world-class athlete even in his 30s based on his scores v the world class women's scores...

What does Tim and mit stand for?

Missing TIM stands for trans identifying male. This has become a common term for gender critical feminists to use in preference to using ‘transwoman’ as many feminists feel that this term sounds like a subset of women.

It probably goes without saying that trans activists don’t like the term and would probably call you a TERF for using it!