Spectator article: Don't fall for it people

[JenniferJames]

Comrades,

The framing of the self-id debate as 'Corbynistas vs. Mumsnet' is a deliberate tactic by the right wing propaganda machine and done to undermine Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour party and paint it as hopelessly divided. We're not.

It is important to remember that only a Corbyn gov't will lift women out of poverty, build homes, invest in the economy, make tuition fees free and stop invading the Middle East. Jeremy, though he doesn't hold our position, is the only Labour MP who has not only come out and said that women are entitled to a debate and to campaign against self-id, but that we have a right to raise money to see if the Equalities Act 2010 exemptions are being misused by AWS.

Hope everyone is well. Mumsnet you are indeed mighty.

Everyone is frightened and angry and frustrated and we are right to be. None of us are perfect and we don't have to be. We don't agree on everything but we do all agree on the important thing, which is that women are a distinct class of humans who need safe spaces and representation.

Solidarity sisters.

I am asking myself what price I am prepared to pay to prevent ALL women from becoming legally invisible for a very long time.

Me too Lang

Great post Barracker

Thank you DaisyDrip
I don't often post as I find people generally say what I want to in a more erudite manner but I read and follow links and think about things.
I also know people who know how to get things into the media and try and bring them over.
I won't give up on trying to get this over to an 'UnMumsnetty' type of audience but I guess it's good to know where we stand eh?

Oh and while I'm posting, make you're really tiresome. Just do one

make

You are all over at least two threads and noone is interested in your pro=Corbyn campaigning.

Howyoualldoworkme I agree. I very rarely post, I think I've posted more on this thread than I have on any other and sadly it's been posts made due to sadness and yes, annoyance. I think perhaps as I'm not a Labour voter then it's time to bow out of these threads. As you say, others say things from a much more knowledgeable standpoint and certainly more erudite than I could.

I've learned so much from these threads, but truly didn't expect my political leanings to be used as a stick to beat me. I believed we were all woman fighting a very un-tribal cause.

Non-Corbynite lefty here. I don't regret donating to the fundraiser at all because AWS do matter, and also, if nothing else, it has finally got this issue into the mainstream press (however much JJ may see the mainstream press as "capitalist running dogs" or whatever, I personally think this issue needs to be out in the open in front of as wide a range of audiences as possible). So even if, ultimately, the legal campaign to protect AWS goes nowhere, we've raised the profile enormously and that has to be worth something.

I believed we were all woman fighting a very un-tribal cause.

We are, even if some people don't realize that yet. This is too important to be reduced to a squabble between different Labour factions.

We are, even if some people don't realize that yet. This is too important to be reduced to a squabble between different Labour factions.

We are actually in agreement.

If we stick together we can.

Daisy and Howyou we are fighting a cause across all political spectrums. Please don't let one thread put you off.

The way I look at it is that I am pro - women and am fighting self ID for all women, those that hold very different political views from me and even those women that would call me TERF for it.

AngryAttackKittens I don't feel that way after this thread and it's very sad. No matter what our political stripe we may be, we are all woman who will be badly effected by self ID.

Incidentally, you're one of the woman here who I've learned so much from - thank you!

Stay with the threads Daisy. I'm going to
This is important for all of us
I'm just voicing a bit of anger and disappointment

Thank you OvaHere You've taught me so much too.

make You ok hun?

Dammit, why don't we have a hug smiley?

I know that it sucks to have someone you admired disappoint you, and I was taken aback by Jennifer's comments at first too. Maybe she'll eventually get past the knee jerk how dare they insult Corbyn stuff, maybe she won't, but either way the fact remains that we're in this together as women like it or not and will be most effective if we're all able to keep that in mind.

Howyoualldoworkme Perhaps. I may just read and not comment, we'll see. I just feel so let down by JJ and the views she has voiced here and by blowing kisses to Tory woman on Twitter. For the first time ever, I feel very unwelcome.

Daisy do stay. This fight is happening across the political spectrum, and it needs to if we are to win it.

Sisters before misters, every time. Not apologizing for that.

Awful times. The whole GRC and trans-activists agenda is passing the vast vast majority of the GBP by - and I only know of it reading FWR pages here.

Have discussed it with three other Labour members in past two weeks - no-one is aware of this at all. I work in a large public-facing civil service setting - ditto. The almost blanket media silence is extremely alarming.
The ramifications haven't even hit home to the folks I've discussed it with. Everyone is trying really hard to be "inclusive" and painfully liberal.

Am really disappointed to read Angela Rayner MP is up for it. She is otherwise admirable and sits in the next consituency to mine.

I found both articles emcouraging - that a prominent media outlet is encouraging other outlets to shine a light.

I won't ditch membership yet, but come the moment when this aberation-to-sense is passed then I'm out.

As i said above, I’m not a Labour voter,
—though quite frankly there’s no one I would vote for now— but I refuse to feel unwelcome and out of place on these threads. The issue is far too important.,

makeourfuture If you are going to quote part of my message it can look a little disingenuous to miss out the bit that needs to be addressed by the left.

"Women are hugely represented within that group and those poor and sick women will see their rights eroded if self-ID is accepted as the way to determine who is a woman. "

I don't see how we can look out for the rights of the poor and sick, by ignoring things that can impact negatively on them.

Have mailed my Labour MP to ask if she is supporting this, and tweeted Angela R to express disappointment and surprise.

You lost me at comrade! Can’t stand all that phoney stuff

Daisy

Believe me, there are THOUSANDS of us who do not think like Jennifer, I very much hope she'll take a self care break and look after herself and stop projecting her frustrations on to us.

My lack of support for Corbyn was complete well before this, it's not about him, it's about US.

For every woman prepared to play politics with our very serious concerns, there are 100x more who are united on this issue. Take a look at this video, this is Radfems, lefties and Christian right wing women working together in the States, all saying 'biology is not bigotry' and it's not.

Sadly in patriarchy, under which all women have to try and survive, you are going to have one or two, despite their good intentions, that put male approval, and man pleasing above solidarity with all women.

My feminism is for all women, even those women who'd punch me in the face, call me nazi and a terf. My feminism is for women who have different politics to me. My feminism is even for those women who are anti feminist.

We can win this. We've got to stick with reality, this is without a shadow of a doubt an MRA counter revolution and a men's sexual rights movement, which hurts women, kids, and genuine transsexuals - it butchers our language, undermines free speech, deletes our rights, and prioritises the feelings and agenda of sexual fetishists above actual women and actual trans people and is in danger of destabilising our entire political system. It's bigger than any one individual.

No, the comrade stuff is cringeworthy.

And I'm not a fucking socialist

Awful times. The whole GRC and trans-activists agenda is passing the vast vast majority of the GBP by

Mr Pan this is absolutely right. This is where I was a few weeks ago. Now I see this as the biggest political battle of my lifetime. Keep talking to people.

All your votes count, use them and your voices to show people what is going on and the implications. Let them make their own minds up once they can see the whole picture.

Women have the vote and so do their fathers, sons, friends, uncles. We have the power to stand up to this. We need to use it.