Spectator article: Don't fall for it people

[JenniferJames]

Comrades,

The framing of the self-id debate as 'Corbynistas vs. Mumsnet' is a deliberate tactic by the right wing propaganda machine and done to undermine Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour party and paint it as hopelessly divided. We're not.

It is important to remember that only a Corbyn gov't will lift women out of poverty, build homes, invest in the economy, make tuition fees free and stop invading the Middle East. Jeremy, though he doesn't hold our position, is the only Labour MP who has not only come out and said that women are entitled to a debate and to campaign against self-id, but that we have a right to raise money to see if the Equalities Act 2010 exemptions are being misused by AWS.

Hope everyone is well. Mumsnet you are indeed mighty.

I should have added, men's hurt feelings on this, and women who are more concerned about men's hurt feelings on this, are of zero interest to me and of zero relevance to what we are about.

I donated. I'm a "tory" too according to JJ. I don't regret donating because this issue is too important but in her attempts to defend Corbyn, JJ has just cavalierly dismissed quite a few of us and - as many others have said - we need to stick together as women on this issue, no matter what our political differences. I am not even sure how I feel about AWS (more pro than not) but I still donated to the fund to keep them AW.

I should have added, men's hurt feelings on this, and women who are more concerned about men's hurt feelings on this, are of zero interest to me and of zero relevance to what we are about.

This I agree with.

We are in a terrible, pitched battle now between good and evil. The stakes could not be higher.

There have always been people against self-id who ultimately out their party politics first. They're naive especially if they think their party will change in power. History proves that won't happen.
Self-id is the most important issue affecting women and it crosses party divides because all parties are failing us.
You only have to look back at all the webchats where representatives from every party failed to answer the 'what is a woman?' question. They think they can drop into MN, patronise us and secure our support. They're deluded.

Re spoiling ballots / not voting / switching parties please be aware that spoiling your ballot gives you a unique opportunity to have a voice.

Any message written on a spoilt ballot must be read aloud at the count.

That includes any offensive or rude or otherwise controversial message, as much as a message which makes an important political point.

If you have a local election coming up, which you don't think is going to be earth shatteringly crucial, there is much to be said for voicing your discontent AT the ballot box in this way.

Makeourfuture

I've been down this rabbit hole a long time, the longer I'm involved, the longer I'm convinced that - dramatic as it sounds - we really are in the crucible.

I was looking at photographs yesterday and reading a shonky medical paper outlining the brave and stunning success of inducing lactation in a transwoman (her transman brood mare coughed up the baby obvs).

The doctor was a TIM (transwoman) and the breastfeeder was a TIM - they used a cocktail of drugs and pumps to produce the milk (one that has been banned for 14 years). So essentially you had a man coaching another man to get a baby to suckle his nipples. With much fanfare at how beautiful it all was, and how it was just like what a woman can do.

Once I'd got over the feeling that I needed to smash the furniture, I reaffirmed my commitment that this is the hill I'm going to die on. They can F**K off.

Men are ruthless this is why they run the world, the Tories are ruthless this is why they keep winning elections, Momentum are ruthless, which is how they've taken over the party. 'Women be nice' is a catastrophic and dangerous position for us to take on this, and anyone saying so should pipe the F down.

Indeed.

Girlscout72 I’m with you all the way.
Jennifer I was the one who originally brought the crowdfunder to MN’s attention - please don’t alienate Women of different political opinions, we need them, we need ALL of them.

Really? Their website says "Membership is open to all self-identifying women." So that's me excluded then!

Feck, that’s disappointing. I’ve read a bit of there research on various things and it’s all on biological women. I’ve never looked at the membership page, how annoying that’s me back to the drawing board.

if this is really Jennifer James posting, I'm glad I didn't put too much faith in her....bizarre.

@Riverside2, I think it's likely it's her. I had the same question earlier. A poster whose handle I forget mentioined that JJ has also been on about this at her Twitter account. If you look there (her handle is @msjenniferjames, it's true. She's even called MNers who disagree with her "Tories" on her Twitter.

TBH now I'm a bit worried that her whole GoFundMe campaign has been a Corbyn backed operation the whole time, designed to demoralize those of us who are actually against self-ID. I can be paranoid though, but it is a worry with politics being the way it is these days...

Does anyone know if JJ was reinstated by Labour after being suspended? I can't imagine how any woman who was suspended for defending women could be so blind in her defense of the party who would do such a thing.

Any message written on a spoilt ballot must be read aloud at the count.

That's very useful to know.

@SerciteEland

I was suspicious of the GoFundMe but there's often reason to be suspicious of those.

This whole thing is so planned, so orchestrated - I've already said I think TRAs are MRAs and posing as a woman supporting a move away from self ID would certainly form part of all this.

As for saying those who disagree are Tories, that is not the behaviour of anyone who is, er, an adult? Something very wrong here.

OP has also mentioned that Jeremy Corbyn hasn't really understood the difference between transexual and transgender. If that were true, it would make all the parties just as incompetent as each other. I can believe it, but presenting it as a defence is bizarre.

I mean, he has access to the internet, yes? And he's not stupid.

www.votenone.org.uk/protest_votes_count.html
This is an interesting read if anyone is seriously considering a spoilt / protest vote rather than staying at home.

As for saying those who disagree are Tories, that is not the behaviour of anyone who is, er, an adult? Something very wrong here.

It is the attack Corbynites always use.

Corbyn has form for not understanding important issues in any detail, because he isn't interested / doesn't suit his agenda / they are not his pet issue.

He recently upset a lot of Labour MPs over Brexit at a meeting:

One said: "Jeremy said that when people voted to leave the EU, they voted to leave the single market. Single market membership requires us to be members of the EU."

Other MPs backed up the account and another said: "Corbyn again claimed that no country can be in the single market but outside the EU - clearly Norway needs to get in touch."

news.sky.com/story/pro-eu-labour-mps-hit-out-at-corbyn-for-taking-single-market-off-table-11200704

I think several were openly spitting feathers on social media over it, and he's said words to the same effect on the Sunday Politics shows in the past.

Even if you support leaving, that's poor. MPs of all shades not knowing their shit properly or deliberately misrepresenting it, are the problem in politics. Its a universal trait.

Now be fair, not always. Sometimes it's "you're a Blairite!"

Calm down, all. I'm sure it's Jen posting. The crowdfunder is genuine. Imagine the stress Jen has been under since all this started. It's no surprise she's getting triggered or seeing enemies where they don't exist. I'm sure she just needs a break and a calm down, after which she'll be able to separate her personal support for Corbyn from the wider issue of self-ID.

Jen - this isn't a party political issue. Many women from outside Labour contributed to your crowdfunder for that very reason. At last, someone had finally done something constructive to which they could contribute. For them, this has nothing to do with internal Labour factioneering or which sections of the press support Labour and which don't. It's about women and women's rights. Only about women and women's rights.

Sometimes it's "you're a Blairite!"

Or "you're a neo-liberal"

Crock of shite.

Any message written on a spoilt ballot must be read aloud at the count

Are you sure about that? I've been a teller at counts, admittedly years ago. The returning officer reads out the number of rejected papers and the reasons for rejection. I don't recall them reading out what was on the paper.

Imagine the stress Jen has been under since all this started. It's no surprise she's getting triggered or seeing enemies where they don't exist. I'm sure she just needs a break and a calm down, after which she'll be able to separate her personal support for Corbyn from the wider issue of self-ID.

This.

Fight on policy, not politics.

It gets more support.

It is Jennifer posting - she already confirmed it on Twitter.

But I agree with Bela - we need ALL women on this, regardless of political persuasion.

This is too big to just be about Labour any more.

LangCleg "Calm down, all. I'm sure it's Jen posting"

Is that better? That cements my initial impression (from the crowdfunding) that she is not the calibre I'd like to see in a politician. Even in this crazy world....!

Are you sure about that? I've been a teller at counts, admittedly years ago. The returning officer reads out the number of rejected papers and the reasons for rejection. I don't recall them reading out what was on the paper.

Its certainly true in my area.

I know people who regularly have attended. One recalls the occasion where a candidate had to stand there and listen to a rather personal message on a paper.

The reason is because they have to ascertain whether every spoilt ballot is indeed spoilt and they have to ensure that all present are satisfied with that judgment for every ballot classed as spoilt.

I'll see if I can find the exact ruling on this.