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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour lose 3 points - ALL women leaving the party

609 replies

goodyzoe · 11/02/2018 01:42

"The 3-point fall in the Labour share [in You Gov poll] is entirely explained by a 6-point fall among women (from 46% to 40%)"

CON 43 (+1)
LAB 39 (-3)
LD 8 (+2)

@jenniferjames says "Oh fucking hell. I broke the Labour party. :-( "

I've got very mixed feelings. On the one hand - go everyone! They'll have to take notice - surely?

But - Jesus Christ let's not let the Tories have another term.

But - we have to stick up for ourselves don't we.

Starting to think the people who say the rapid rise in TRA ideology is being fuelled by those who stand to benefit from a divided left might have a point. Sad

www.twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/961537001689370624

Labour lose 3 points - ALL women leaving the party
OP posts:
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6
rowdywoman1 · 11/02/2018 10:23

Peston on Sunday showing a significant drop in support for Labour (poll of polls). John Macdonald talking about the importance of every vote

Wonder when they'll get round to noticing that women are walking away because we're being thrown under the bus.

ChampiontheWonderHamster · 11/02/2018 10:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Everyonematters · 11/02/2018 10:26

Fellow has this happened yet or currently a concern that it is likely to become reality:

bend over backwards to make sure that people have everything the need to get the best out of the events we put on. But if a man - who is very obviously a man - in women’s clothing (or a pastiche of women’s clothing to be precise) kicking up a fuss and angrily demanding access to the ladies loos - or shower facilities (some venues have gear for cyclists or gym goers) how can I in all conscience say ‘yes that’s fine, on you go. Of course it may well make he other women uneasy or even scares but fuck ‘em, us girlies just have to suck it up, eh? Or do I take them around to the loos and loiter in case someone kicks off?

Everyonematters · 11/02/2018 10:27

Champion I think they will find plenty of people for whom this would be a deciding factor.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 11/02/2018 10:28

I don't think Labour are being canny at all - they're taking the older women voters for granted, because we have turned out reliably in the past.
Because they are not listening to women they have no idea how strongly we feel about this.

TerfyMcTerface · 11/02/2018 10:32

Does anyone know what the situation is with the constituency boundary changes? Are they going to be in place before the next general election? As I understand it, this is something which will not be to Labour's advantage.

Patodp · 11/02/2018 10:33

Champion
The thing is, women are leaving the membership, changing their voting intention and generally backing away because they are being verbally attacked and abused by Labour party activists.

It's not about one or two policies they don't agree with, it's about witnessing rape threats and verbal abusive or being threatened/abused themselves. Usually for saying very little on social media. And it's completely misogynistic.

I think that is a strong deterrent.

ShowOfHands · 11/02/2018 10:35

I've voted Labour for 20 years. I'm handing in my membership over this. They can't have me in their party if they don't recognise who I am.

doctorcuntybollocks · 11/02/2018 10:35

I have never felt more strongly on any issue. I have never been more angry than I am now. No party that erases women will ever have my vote.

ChampiontheWonderHamster · 11/02/2018 10:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RedToothBrush · 11/02/2018 10:39

Here is the figure comparison (I note it is by gender not sex) for women (unweighted by likelihood to vote)

28th / 29th Jan
CON 28%
LAB 34%
LD 4%
SNP 3%
Other 4%
Would not vote 7%
Don't know 20%

5th / 6th Feb
CON 29%
LAB 28%
LD 6%
SNP 2%
Other 4%
Would not vote 10%
Don't know 21%

If YouGov are right, then this certainly isn't a switch from Lab to the Cons as I suspected. Its about the Don't Knows and the strength of feeling to vote.

I do think we need urge some caution here. There is a margin of error on these figures. However a difference of 6% which seems to have mainly switched over to the will not vote column is bigger than that margin of error.

BUT

You should never just take two polls in isolation. Its whether it shows a long pattern that's the bigger deal.

Here are the previous yougov figures for 7th / 8th Jan which look like this:
CON 26%
LAB 31%
LD 5%
SNP 4%
Other 3%
Would not vote 9%
Don't know 22%

10th / 11th Dec
CON 29%
LAB 33%
LD 5%
SNP 3%
Other 5%
Would not vote 7%
Don't know 19%

4th / 5th Dec
CON 28%
LAB 29%
LD 3%
SNP 3%
Other 5%
Would not vote 12%
Don't know 20%

7th / 8th Nov
CON 25%
LAB 34%
LD 4%
SNP 2%
Other 4%
Would not vote 10%
Don't know 21%

Which puts something of a different angle on things. There isn't an obvious particular pattern.

Pollsters aren't chasing the voters with a clear intention, they are chasing the individuals about what they would do if it came to the crunch. How they calculate that through weighing is the key bit.

YouGov model on the basis of how likely you are to vote on a scale of 1 - 10. So is more

Here's what it looks like weighed excluding those who would not vote and those who don't know.

5th / 6th Feb
CON 44%
LAB 40%
LD 8%
Other 8%

28th / 29th Jan
CON 39%
LAB 46%
LD 6%
Other 8%

7th / 8th Jan
CON 39%
LAB 45%
LD 7%
Other 9%

5th / 6th Feb
CON 40%
LAB 45%
LD 6%
Other 9%

4th / 5th Dec
CON 43%
LAB 42%
LD 4%
Other 11%

7th / 8th Nov
CON 38%
LAB 49%
LD 6%
Other 8%

No obvious pattern here either. To a certain extent it looks like a shift from Lab to Con but its not.

I think what you are seeing is actually a distinct lack of conviction in Labour voters. The Conservative underlying figure is relatively stable. What is changing is how much Labour voters are convinced they will vote and how motivated they are about voting Labour.

And the answer, is not as convinced as the Labour leadership might like. In order to win an election, they will have to stir up feeling and conviction. They did this successfully at the last election with a message of hope and listening to the people when others were not.

That might well be a one trick pony that won't have the same effect a second time around.

Notably, one of the biggest shifts in voting was in middle aged women aged 25 - 49 which swung things last time around. If they are not convinced by Corbyn or think he isn't listening they won't turn out.

And that's where the danger is for Corbyn. He has to get three key groups out in order to win any election: The Under 25s, BAME voters and women aged 25 - 49.

The important thing to remember is that General Elections are won and lost on the Don't Knows and the Won't Votes. How likely someone is to vote is the key. Neither of these groups of figures really breaks that down. You still have 20% of voters classing themselves as Don't Know.

If you want to put the wind up the Labour Party this is why, saying you won't vote is really important. Make them chase your vote and not take it for granted or be classed as a soft 'I'll vote for them if push came to shove'. If you are asked, say a flat 'I will note vote because'.

Tell them why you can not vote for them as much as you can.

THEY NEED YOUR VOTE AND THOSE FIGURES PROVE ONE THING AND ONE THING ONLY CONCLUSIVELY: The Labour vote is particularly soft and not set in stone and they need to work harder than the Cons for every single one.

The Cons lost a majority by a total of 72 votes across the country. SEVEN TWO votes cast in the right constituencies cost them dear.

Your vote and more to the point your stated voting intention matter.

RedToothBrush · 11/02/2018 10:44

I've posted the above on my fb with my reasons for leaving. I've been told I'm narrow minded.

That's fine. They can call you narrow minded. But it doesn't matter if you are a bigot or the most progressive person in the world.

They still need your vote and dismissing you as having 'the wrong opinion' misses the point. Your vote is equally valid.

See Brexit.

MiaowTheCat · 11/02/2018 10:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

birdsdestiny · 11/02/2018 10:48

I may be wrong but I just don't think this is all down to the trans issue. Polls at this time of the election cycle are in a sense meaningless. In the months prior to the GE Labour lost pretty much every local election going. They were loosing council elections in places like Sunderland! If there is a swing I imagine there will be numerous causes. The way the Labour party is being influenced by momentum will be one of them, I also think Corbyn benefited massively from being the underdog. It is very different voting for someone who you think is going to loose, to voting for someone you think may win. I think Theresa May is possibly the one gaining the sympathy vote this time round.

Ereshkigal · 11/02/2018 10:58

I have never felt more strongly on any issue. I have never been more angry than I am now. No party that erases women will ever have my vote.

YY.

Floisme · 11/02/2018 11:00

It really pisses me off to see women here on mn saying they will vote for tories purely because of one issue (trans).
I know this was a few pages back but it really pisses me off when people dismiss something that affects 51% of the population as 'one issue.'

I am sick of being guilt tripped into voting labour. Sick of it. I refuse to vote for a party that not only supports self ID but that also dismisses and silences anyone who dissents.

I'm not going to vote Tory either - quite apart form anything else, they're the ones who initiated the GRA. I imagine a big reason they're backing off is because they haven't got enough of a majority to get the it through on their own and they don't want the humiliation of having to rely on the labour party. I wouldn't put it past them to revive it if they did win again.

What I would support - and I know this isn't the main point of the thread - is a cross party approach to tackling it.

Fekko · 11/02/2018 11:00

I think it’s a cumulative thing - blind eyes to sexism, racism and anti Semitism. Policies that are very grand sweeping but pie in which sky and not realistic.

The party has changed a lot since I was a child. It was socialist back then - you didn’t feel like you were a crap bag if you made money. You were motivated to joining there local party and pushing for a fair society. Not it seems more ‘us and them’.

It feels very different from when my dad was involved (70s-90s). I don’t think he would feel welcome nowadays and he was the most ‘fair society’ person you’d ever meet.

Mayday01 · 11/02/2018 11:06

I have always voted Labour, but will not do so while they continue to push the self id, or treat the women in the Party with such disdain.
From the outside looking in, it looks rammed full of brocialists, and perpetually offended bullies.
Even the up and coming young Labour members look ridiculous. Having safe spaces and gender neutral loos at their conference.
It doesn't instill confidence that these sort of people can tackle serious issues or have the emotional resilience that politics needs.
On Twitter I've even seen a poster from Labour going on about self identifying as BAME. I mean, come on!
If the average person on the street sees Labour gobbing off about how a man can change into a woman, and white people can be black people, it looks like hilarious crazy talk, and it will put into question such people being incharge of the NHS and education etc.

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 11/02/2018 11:07

Flo

I know this was a few pages back but it really pisses me off when people dismiss something that affects 51% of the population as 'one issue.'

YY to this

One issue? Fuck off to that. It's the rights of half the population being eroded. Not the important half, clearly

noraclavicle · 11/02/2018 11:09

I live in the safest of safe Labour seats, so I don’t think my local MP will be losing much sleep over my vote, but I have written to her. I’ll be interested to see what she says.

EmpressOfJurisfiction · 11/02/2018 11:09

Did it get mentioned on Peston?

Popchyk · 11/02/2018 11:12

That 'one issue' thing annoyed me as well.

It is like asking Jewish voters to just overlook the anti-Semitism and vote for Labour anyway. Because hey, it will be better for non-Jews.

AnotherCassandra · 11/02/2018 11:14

Did you read the other thread? Disabled women are hurt by Self-ID, they can't go out or access health care. It's the same for certain religious women. Self-ID hurts more than cuts.

ChampiontheWonderHamster · 11/02/2018 11:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

QueenLaBeefah · 11/02/2018 11:24

I've never felt angrier about a political issue in my entire life. How fucking dare they erase women like this? I'm supposed to shrug this off for the "greater good"? Like fuck I will.