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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour lose 3 points - ALL women leaving the party

609 replies

goodyzoe · 11/02/2018 01:42

"The 3-point fall in the Labour share [in You Gov poll] is entirely explained by a 6-point fall among women (from 46% to 40%)"

CON 43 (+1)
LAB 39 (-3)
LD 8 (+2)

@jenniferjames says "Oh fucking hell. I broke the Labour party. :-( "

I've got very mixed feelings. On the one hand - go everyone! They'll have to take notice - surely?

But - Jesus Christ let's not let the Tories have another term.

But - we have to stick up for ourselves don't we.

Starting to think the people who say the rapid rise in TRA ideology is being fuelled by those who stand to benefit from a divided left might have a point. Sad

www.twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/961537001689370624

Labour lose 3 points - ALL women leaving the party
OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Violetparis · 16/02/2018 14:35

Thanks Jennifer, I think the main stream media are starting to notice and discuss the issue - The Andrew Marr Show and The Independent as examples. Myself, and I think many others on Mumsnet are only starting to realise the repurcussions of self ID. As more people become aware and more vocal the politicians will have to come off the fence.

birdsdestiny · 16/02/2018 15:05

Yes corbyn has been such a clear signpost on Europe. Don't think I will get rid of my sat nav just yet.

Everyonematters · 16/02/2018 15:10

askbasil and ovahere Mhairi Black has totally drunk the Koolaid AFAIK - unless something has changed since this:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3154398-Mhairi-Black-throws-women-under-the-bus

LifelongVaginaOwner · 16/02/2018 15:16

Corbyn couldn't signpost his way out of a paper bag

On the crowdfunder

“People are free to campaign within the party and free to raise these issues and have that discussion.”

On self ID (same interview)

“Do you think that a self-identified trans woman is a woman?”

“Yes,” came the simple response.

“The position of the party is that where you have self-identified as a woman, then you are treated as a woman,”

iBiscuit · 16/02/2018 15:47

He kept his Brexit signpost well hidden, in the knowledge that he'd have lost a ton of remain voters had he been honest about his ideology views.

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 16/02/2018 15:48

I still don’t know what his views on Brexit are.

Do you, Jennifer?

RedToothBrush · 16/02/2018 16:02

I had a really good look at the YouGov stuff last week, to see if there was anything that supported the theory of it being due to LabourLosingWomen.

I don't think it was anything notable or out of the ordinary or significant shift shown last week.

See my post on page 4
Sun 11-Feb-18 10:39:51
Its about what YouGov is showing and what it is not showing. There is only one trend there, which should be noted: How volatile it is and how Labour's vote isn't as solid as the Con one. Beyond that it only shows which voters are showing up as particularly tricky and have no confirmed loyalty.

I think the point is never simply read the headline figure. Its pretty meaningless. The devil is in the detail, I'm afraid.

The yougov polling is showing something different to what everyone is reporting it is because too many reporters haven't got a clue about stats or polling methodology.

Here's the single biggest key point, well put:

twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/964496258068107264
This also touches on the same thing.

As does this tweet.
Jane Green‏ @ProfJaneGreen
Women consistently say 'don't know' more regularly than men; the most consistent gender gap. Sometimes the don't knows split in one direction more than others (#ge2017 to Labour) making this very significant.

The accuracy of the final poll before an election, isn't about those headline numbers that generate all the headlines for weeks in advance. Its about how they classify all those don't know and how accurately they assess likelihood to vote. YouGov nailed it at the election when others didn't.

This latest headline YouGov figure does not include those who are don't knows. This is (obviously) really important, and frankly is a statistical abomination.

20% of women currently saying 'don't know' is a huge number. You also have 9% of women currently saying they will not vote at all (which is the same as men so perhaps not as relevant)

They MIGHT be more likely to vote Labour. But I'd be extremely weary of the assumption that women will definitely behave the same way on the next election day compared with the last one. Why? Because of the groups which are most likely to be the don't knows and the stay at homes.

Because the don't knows are so big, it could hide all manner of trends.

The 'don't know' option is much higher in the 18 - 24 age group and the 25 - 50 age group too (men and women combined) compared to the 65+ group. Younger people are less confident of the way they will vote.

Also notable in this weeks poll is that the 25 - 50 age group (for both male and female) has a significantly higher number of people saying they won't vote at all, than any other group. (14% compared to 5% 65+, 5% 50 - 64 and 8% 18 - 24) At the last election the biggest age group who didn't vote were the 18 - 24s. This is a big and significantly difference between last week and this.

Not only that, I've looked at the past three YouGovs for this 12/13th Feb / 5th/6th Feb / 28th / 29th Jan and 7th / 8th Jan:

18 - 24 - 8 / 9 / 18 / 19
25 - 50 14 / 16 / 12 / 12
50 - 64 5 / 7 / 5 / 7
65+ 5 / 6 / 5 / 7

So young people are more likely to vote than they were a month ago, whilst the middle aged is the least likely to vote. Looking back further the 25 - 50 group seem to be the difficult one consistently. The young intention is up and down.

The long and short of it, is that the Labour vote is much softer than the Conservative one. Women and the 25 - 50 groups are the most undecided (and perhaps are the most volatile decisive groups particularly as both are more spread out and evenly distributed than other age groups / social class etc etc).

Women and the 25 - 50 groups are notable for four reasons: they are parents / they are the core of the work force / and they are the group settling down and looking to buy a house or have bought one recently / Remain supporters. Plus the 25 - 50 group isn't so concentrated in particular areas like the youth or older vote so it has more of an effect.

I would not like to second guess group either tbh because they are the ones torn in different directions most. The classic centrists! Most of the pollsters got it wrong for the last election, when they tried to call it.

Given that only 72 votes across a few key marginal seats, made the difference between a tory majority and a hung parliament, anyone drawing any conclusions about who currently might win an election and who is currently leading without counting 20% of women and 9% of men in the figures, is talking bullshit to say the least.

The poll doesn't say nothing, but it certainly isn't saying anything clear or straightforward either.

(Sorry for boring everyone to death. That's just my take on the YouGov figures).

Everyonematters · 16/02/2018 16:24

Thanks Red v interesting

LangCleg · 16/02/2018 16:39

The long and short of it, is that the Labour vote is much softer than the Conservative one.

Exactly this. I do think one possible explanation is that women are, as many on here, beginning to recognise that they are not the current Labour priority and also that the grass isn't much greener anywhere else.

And it's also worth factoring in that Labour's electoral performance is much more vulnerable to voter apathy than that of the Tories.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 16/02/2018 17:14

Exactly this. I do think one possible explanation is that women are, as many on here, beginning to recognise that they are not the current Labour priority and also that the grass isn't much greener anywhere else.

Which will result in them not voting or spoiling papers.

Many people held noses and voted Labour last GE. Many won't do it again.

Botanistinhiding · 16/02/2018 17:22

It does depend a bit on what the tories do in terms of moderating their polices - there are plenty of friends/family that don’t like the leadership but have never not voted labour/lib dem.

OlennasWimple · 16/02/2018 19:08

I'm trying to give M Black the benefit of the doubt because she is still young. I dont' mean to patronise her - she is an impressive and formidable politician - but I know my feminism now is very different to when I was young and didn't feel that being female had held me back in any meaningful way.

OvaHere · 16/02/2018 19:22

but I know my feminism now is very different to when I was young and didn't feel that being female had held me back in any meaningful way.

YY I think back to my 20s and I was so optimistic, a university graduate at the start of a promising career. I thought I could juggle work and family and that by the time I was in my 40s/50s with children grown I could focus fully on my career and would be able to soar until I retired.

Then in my late 20s I had a disabled child.

I struggled on for a few years but eventually had to leave the career type job. I tried to be freelance for a while but that became impossible with no childminder that could cope. I then worked a minimum wage 2 day a week job until 2 years ago when I lost that because of the amount of time I needed to take off.

So here I am in my 40s and potentially fucked if my husband ever left me. I struggle to see how I can ever get back on track.

All because biology. Sad

AskBasil · 16/02/2018 19:40

God.

How very disappointing about Mhairi Black.

Her youth isn't an excuse.

My daughter's 15 and knows the transgender ideology is homophobic bollocks.

So do all her friends.

AngryAttackKittens · 16/02/2018 21:19

If anyone wanted to work on peak transing Black the cotton ceiling crap would be the obvious place to start, but ultimately I'm guessing the problem is peer pressure if all her friends are very much in the "I ID as queer as in fuck you" camp.

LizzieSiddal · 16/02/2018 21:43

That so Independant article is interesting as they’ve been fairly pro self ID, up until now.

hipsterfun · 16/02/2018 21:51

No one wants to be the first one to speak out and endure the pile on. Weathervanes. There are feminists in Labour starting to speak out on this, we just need to keep pushing.

So the Labour feminists and feminist allies (allies in the true sense, not the new TRA cis-allies-human-shield sense) need to speak out as one, loud and clear.

Ereshkigal · 16/02/2018 21:51

There are a couple of "transwomen are women!" automatons in the comments. And a post by a transsexual male asking the media to stop using trans issues to make cheap points. While I sympathise, good luck with that on any issue!

AngryAttackKittens · 16/02/2018 21:53

The "transwomen are women because they're women and that's how we know they're women because they say they are" comments are always funny. It's like arguing with a Scientologist.

thebewilderness · 17/02/2018 21:38

Only males can be transwomen which is how we know they are men.

governess · 18/02/2018 11:22

After all the mess of the Tories - and Labour are still behind in the polls... it beggars belief.

Corbyn is a secret Brexiter (he voted to not go into the EEC originally) and voted against nearly every EU bill ever since - I believe. If they voted in David Milliband - you would see a very different Labour party - rather than one which seems to be self radicalising week by week. Anyti Semitics, Momentum wanting to de-select, McDonell telling us he will be spending 250 billion extra over a 10 year period.

I fear Labour are going back to place where Militant Tendency wanted to take the Kinnock leadership

Everyonematters · 18/02/2018 11:51

Only males can be transwomen which is how we know they are men.

thebewilderness has it.

TuftedLadyGrotto · 18/02/2018 15:13

Misogyny at the national policy forum this weekend. Not trans related, but labour party and women related.

Check out #npf on twitter.

busyboysmum · 18/02/2018 20:36

Just seen this on Twitter. What is going on?

Labour lose 3 points - ALL women leaving the party
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