Was Greer Right When She Said Men Hate Women?

[LastGirlOnTheLeft]

I have just skim read The Female Eunuch and like everyone else, the stand out line to me was that men hate us but we aren't aware of the extent, and neither are they!!

Do you think this is true?? My DH, my late father and my brother, all immensely like/d and love/d the women in their lives. I hate to think it is true, but if it is, I want to know! I want to know my enemy.

Missy do you accept that historically men hated women? Banning them from the public vote, banning them from receiving academic degrees, banning them from regulating their own reproductive cycle, banning them from owning property? Or was that just accidental? If you do accept that historically men hated women (by systematically oppressing them), what is it that has led to a sudden sea-change?

Maybe hate is the wrong word. Maybe it should be disrespect. Men in general do not see women as their equals.

Scant??
You think that the information is too scant to decide?

Actually did you know that in general women aren’t accepted in medical trials because ‘they are too hard to deal with due to their changes in hormones’???

Which means that when we take medication, no one has any idea of the effect it will have on our hormones.....

But tbh restricting this idea of ‘hate’ to murder or rape is simplying the issue to the extreme
I agree with this but would also say the term hate is too broad to do any meaningful analysis.

Not ready-
References please?

And yes not nearly enough information there to draw any conclusion

References please?
Lol at this from someone who offered wikipedia as their 'reference'.

Ie this
they are too hard to deal with due to their changes in hormones’???

Is that because women's hormones change and cause physical changes like rise in temperature at certain times in cycle- therefore throwing in an unnecessary variable into scientific research?

On what and why?

Susan I said would you like a reference and poster never replied - you are being dishonest

So if men don't hate us then why is there so much rape, murder, assault, harrasment, dv, general inequality in all aspects of life, economically, politically?? What is the answer to that Missy?

Not ready-
All of it, the medical trial I suspect I'm right- females have variable hormones, males are more stable- therefore it's an unnecessary variable.

Lettuce-
What's the answer to why men assault mainly other men, murder other men.... I've been through this and feel I'm repeating myself

Is that because women's hormones change and cause physical changes like rise in temperature at certain times in cycle- therefore throwing in an unnecessary variable into scientific research?

But that's the whole issue though. The assumption is that the 'norm' is someone without hormonal fluctuations. Women are 'other'- their biology makes them unfit for scientific trials that prefer the constancy of the male body that does not change on a cyclical basis. Can you not see that this prioritises men? I can bet you any money in the world that if men had fluctuating hormones that this would be at the forefront of any scientific research and any drug would be specifically tested on how it interacted with those hormones.

I do actually work in clinical trials.

Fitting g the population of the trial to the population that it’s intended to treat is actually something they do these days - however it’s still not perfect by any means. The aim is to get roughly a half half sex ratio in an age and ethnic spread that matches the population the drug will be used in.

Women are used. The differences between ethnicities is tricky because some parameters do differ (the main one is creatinine clearance) which differs in black African-origin populations. However ‘race’ is genetically quite meaningless as there are more genetic differences within populations than between them. Also trials have limited budgets so it’s impossible to ever account for every single combination of age sex and ethnicity. Running trials in certain countries is a nightmare (India, China, for example due to epidemic levels of corruption)

In short things are getting better. Still not perfect but I don’t think it’s accurate to say that women are not represented in trials. Obviously v v strict rules about contraception for both partners.

Actually the populations most failed by trials are children and pregnant women.

And the poster that said white males- why white males out of interest?

I had a relationship with a man who’s mother hit him often for something he couldn’t control. He must of hated her because of the way he couldn’t maintain a relationship without anger issues.

But that's the whole issue though. The assumption is that the 'norm' is someone without hormonal fluctuations. Women are 'other'- their biology makes them unfit for scientific trial

Susan it's not a personal thing against women, their hormones are more varied during menstrual cycle and science likes to keep variables to a minimum so they can measure the factor theyre supposed to be. It's not saying women aren't normal.

It depends what's on trial and how it would affect the research

I think there are some men who really do actively hate women and it passes down thru their family. I had an ex who was incredibly violent and his dad had been violent to his mother and his grandfather to his gran etc etc Seem to gain self esteem from exterting control and fear over women. Seems to be ingrained in them that their masculinity is dependant on how under the thumb they can keep the women around them.

Then there are men who dont actively hate women but also live in a society where women are perpetually objectified and demeaned so that is subconsciously part of them.

I do think men have to actively be aware of their attitude to women and question it regularly if they want to avoid 'hating' them.

They do, but they also disproportionately attack, rape and murder a group of people who are of very little physical threat to them. They fight each other, but this is a symptom of a tendency towards violence, not a wider-scale oppression.

How do you explain the extreme repression of women throughout history? How can we be living in a world where civilisation has existed for thousands of years, yet it's only 100 years ago that some women were given the right to vote and 90 years since all women got it? Does that not say something to you?

That's why I'm sceptical when people say men hate women- it's important to look what this is based on.

And the poster that said white males- why white males out of interest?

Do you really have to ask that?

You are just wrong, Missymoo, and you just keep doubling down in spite of people sharing the facts with you.

They do, but they also disproportionately attack, rape and murder a group of people who are of very little physical threat to them.

Rape is not disproportionate because the offence requires a penis- 100% rape perps are male

It's not disproportionately against females, more males are killed by males- 68percent. The stats show it's not disproportionately female therefore in a 50-50 population of males and females.