Was Greer Right When She Said Men Hate Women?

[LastGirlOnTheLeft]

I have just skim read The Female Eunuch and like everyone else, the stand out line to me was that men hate us but we aren't aware of the extent, and neither are they!!

Do you think this is true?? My DH, my late father and my brother, all immensely like/d and love/d the women in their lives. I hate to think it is true, but if it is, I want to know! I want to know my enemy.

Re hate crimes against women
Ok your scenario
"Show us your tits love"
Defining this as a hate crime you would have to prove that it was motivated by hate against woman-
How would you narrow the motivation down to hate and not say a sexual motive-
That's why it wouldn't work classifying it as a hate crime

Absolutely true.

Women certainly do hate other women.

The 'sisterhood' is the biggest oxymoron of them all.

I much prefer male company, always have done.

Fact is, men do keep women in check with these remarks, with this type of harassment.

I don't know a single woman in the world who has not had a creepy man saying something to them on public transport, or on the street, to make them feel uncomfortable, or scared, or violated.

Even a supposedly non-threatening "nice tits" - I always think "fuck, is he just going to stop at this supposed compliment? Is he going to try and engage further, what's he going to do now"

This makes women afraid - wary of being out in public alone. It can damage their freedom and independence. Every man that does this is intimidating women - he is saying "you're here, and it is my right to comment on parts of body, on your attractiveness."

I have never had a man say anything like this when I am with another man. I think it's about being out without a 'male keeper'.

I think that some poeple are way too wedded to the law as it has evolved from something put in place to serve men, to see that it fails women and does not reflect our experiences where we have been left feeling violated, frightened, demeaned, upset, angry, all of it.

Men have been shouting show us your tits at schoolgirls since forever, I've never heard of one being punished for it by the law. If anyone has, that would be good to hear so please do share.

"Like violence, hate speech can also be a physical imposition on the freedom of others. That is because language has a psychological effect imposed physically — on the neural system, with long-term crippling effects."

Missy, this is short excerp from a study. Now we know that women are not covered by hate speech but many of us believe that we should be. Words can and do harm.

It is hard work unpacking the conditioning of a lifetime. I cannot in good conscience fault women for cutting the best deal they think they can under the circumstances. I am sad for it because the effort really is worthwhile; although it is true that what is once seen it cannot be unseen.

When a woman says "(some) women hate other women" generally what she has in mind in my experience is the odd "bitchy remark" or occasionally something more serious like sustained bullying in the workplace.

When a woman says "(some) men hate women" what she has in mind is generally 2 murders a week, 85000 rapes a year and countless physical assaults (as well as the catcalling, the workplace bullying, the nasty remarks).

Not really comparable.

Sallyarmy- agreed I've experienced a lot of hostility by other women, including female supervisors at work.
upabit late- so what would you change about the law?
I suspect I this scenario many women brush off the comment and don't report. If it was reported would you expect to hear about any subsequent conviction- it isn't front page news material.

upabit was it this one?
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/nurse-who-filmed-himself-raping-1141202.amp

It was in Devon

Wish I hadn't googled rape sentence reduction

Hairyball- it's not odd bitchy comment- some of my female supervisors have treated me terribly- I have more experience of this than male supervisors treating me unfairly at work.

Lettuce- as I explained it wouldn't work as a hate crime because it's too difficult to pin point motive-
If man said something like "show me your tits"- it doesn't clearly pinpoint the motivation down to sexism, as I said it could be sexually motivated.

Missy are you a police officer?

I've had some legal training but no

I’ve read the thread and come to the conclusion that Germaine Greer was correct.
Always impressed with the clever women on here, wish you were my gang.

it's not odd bitchy comment- some of my female supervisors have treated me terribly- I have more experience of this than male supervisors treating me unfairly at work.
Yep because women often think that the only way to be able to get promotions etc... is to act like a man.
And that includes being very unfair against women and treat them appallingly. Because their male counterparts, the ones that will decide of the promotion think that too.

I agree, there is nothing worse than a woman than climbed the ladder but being just as bad or even worse than their male counterparts.
The problem is, often they would never have arrived there if they hadn’t.

Which also means the issue isn’t really with women being horrible to women in general, but with the system that is still refus8ng to see the way women ‘do business, manage People etc...’ as an ok way to do all those things rather than the ‘male way’ (often based much more in aggressive ways and confrontations rather than reaching compromise etc...)

notready-
I definitely can relate to it that. I think some female supervisors feel they have something to prove and direct their authority at easy targets- other women.

You can be in the gang bubblegum. Just stay and post

I read something that said in male dominated environments, women are well aware that they are in a precarious position, that there are limited number of opportunities for women, this results in them fighting to be the woman picked agianst other women. It made sense to me - it's a reaction to the circumstance and probably one many of them don't realise they're doing. If there are limited spaces for women, and women are well aware of this consciously or unconsciously, then their competition is other women, and men are the ones who can help them. You can see how this breeds toxic behaviour which is then put down to women's innate personality issues. This happens all the time - women are set up to fail (in whatever way) and then when it happens men point to it as evidence that women are inferior.

"upabit late- so what would you change about the law?
I suspect I this scenario many women brush off the comment and don't report. If it was reported would you expect to hear about any subsequent conviction- it isn't front page news material."

I would be amazed if a man in the UK has been charged convicted and sentenced for shouting "show us your tits" at a schoolgirl.

The change I would like to see is for crimes that are generally committed against women and girls by men (and boys - see girl guiding report) and are of a sexual nature but fall short of what is generally recognised by society (including the police courts etc) as "serious" to start being treated as serious. I want to live in a world where when a man shouts "show us your tits" at a schoolgirl, she knows that that is a crime, that she confidently tells family or police / her family confidently tell police, and they treat it with seriousness and her with respect, and the man who did it is pursued in line with how a man should be who makes sexual remarks to underage girls.

That would be a good start.

"many women brush off the comment and don't report"

1. The example I gave was a child not a woman
2. Just because a woman (girl) doesn't report, doesn't mean she has "brushed it off". Many women never forget all this shit and it does something to their psyche, their sense of safety, their comfort when out and about in the world

Are you posting in good faith? If so, please can you explain why a girl has become a woman, and where the idea that women who don't report things have "brushed them off" comes from?

Look at #metoo for evidence of the fact that women and girls put up and shut up, and internalise it all. Those women and girls have not "brushed" anything off, they have remembered it ALL.

I don't know how many women feel the same but I have to admit that I sometimes treat other women with caution because I presume they're against me, or will be bitch about me- until I figure out whether they're friendly or not. Like some kind of cautionary bias against other females, maybe down to experiences in the past.

Hope that makes sense... I mean I feel on the defensive,

I like men and women on the whole. I don't have problems with either generally although most of my life, most of my friends have been male. My few close friends are female though, although I dont' really do "best friends". We're all different aren't we.

I've only met about 2 out and out nasty women in my life. I've never been violently attacked or sexually assaulted by one, or even felt threatened TBH.