Was Greer Right When She Said Men Hate Women?

[LastGirlOnTheLeft]

I have just skim read The Female Eunuch and like everyone else, the stand out line to me was that men hate us but we aren't aware of the extent, and neither are they!!

Do you think this is true?? My DH, my late father and my brother, all immensely like/d and love/d the women in their lives. I hate to think it is true, but if it is, I want to know! I want to know my enemy.

As I said, threatening violence is covered by law, public order act, harassment etc...
Mere scathing remarks as the comment I was referring to is NOT violence in its own right unless accompanied by a real threat of violence.
Hurting feelings is not violence

Kill the bitch-
Intended to carry out- offence of threats to kill,
More likely - words or behaviours that cause harassment alarm or distress as covered by the public order act

I still remember something my late mum said to me as I left the house on the morning of my very first day at work, in the late 1970's:

"Do your best but remember, men don't like women to be too clever, dear"

Missy I said at the start of this thread, I thought that hate was strong too. But that there was very little respect for women in general.

However, reading posts like the ones from Ray makes me wonder. Are some men so naive that they really can’t consider any reality different than theirs or is it actually hate, hate to be actually told how things are and to have to face the consequences of it, that they are not in fact nice people like they like to describe themselves??

I remember reading a study where they asked men if they had ever had sex in .
Most of those men would say they have never raped a woman. They are nice people etc etc.
But reading those answers, actually nearly 50% of them had sex wo consent with their partner (she was asleep, drunk, on drugs etc... or simply not keen). So a huge number of men actually had rape a woman. But they never ever saw that as rape. Because rape is for bad people and they aren’t one of those.
I think the same happens here. Men want to see themselves as good people, one that is kind to women in their life, one that helps with the HW, treat women as equal etc... but the reality is that, in a meeting they would be horrified to see women ‘monopolising the time’ by speaking 50% if the time. They will make assumptions that xxx is junior to them or an admin etc etc etc
And if you have ever tried to raise those issues with the men in your life, those really close to you, father, husband etc... those nice guys, you will see that they HATE being told that actually they aren’y nearly as nice as they want to portray themselves.
Just as they hate the rise of the #MeToo movement that is putting right in their face the fact women are routinely assaulted.
Because they just can’t carry in believing that it’s just others, just one of ‘those’ Women who met of ‘those’ men.

An invitation to dinner or sex is not supposed to include a threat of violence, but saying 'no' can trigger a violent response.

Missymoo100

Yes men and women can be violent, however one does it a whole lot more......can you guess which one? Also one of them has the power, this can be easily be seen, goverment, head of companies, most affluent etc. Have you actually seen any of the vitriol thrown at women online...for simply being a woman, or an actress or a spokeswoman or a writer, seriously???

As I said, threatening violence is covered by law, public order act, harassment etc...
But how often does it happen that men are actually convicted of breaking a law like this?
And how often women are going to press charges for that, esp for a one off?
They would be seen as over reacting etc... Do you really think that men in the Police would take such a complain Serioulsy or would it be brushed aside as not essential/urgent/serious??

Missymoo10

So when my ex called me a fat whore, those words weren't violent? Or when he called me crazy, broken, stupid......that's all fine. I should have sucked it up should I because they weren't violent enough for you? Wrong! Emotional abuse is against the law, a criminal act in fact.

And I mean for that one off where a man shouts a line like this from behind the bus stop....

Ever heard of man going to prison for that?

I wish they wouod tbh. Because that’s exactly the sort of th8sg that keep women living in fear.
I’m grateful that now in my late 40s I have passed the age where I can look ‘attractive’ to move into the ‘totally ignored’ category.
At least I don’t have to live with that anymore.

Lettuce- your putting words in my mouth, I said women and men can make scathing remarks... often do. A scathing remark isn't violence.
Not ready to move- they frequently do though, dv has had some good improvement in conviction rates.

overnightangel, your ad hom remarks are making you look worse than your target, just in case you care.

Missy I'd appreciate your view on some of the examples I gave upthread.

What you are talking/arguing about is terrorism, I think. The sort that is not addressed in law.

Lettuce-
Have I said you should suck it up- no I haven't! It's not violence though. There may be other offences depending on context. Someone being insulting is not violence, abusive yes, violence no.

Missymoo100

So what is your point? Do you accept that women and other men are often victims of men? Do you accept that we live in a system of inequality? One that benefits men?

Words can be violent. What you are ignoring is that those scathing remarks are often hurled at women, especially those with a voice and it us an attempt to silence them.....that is extremly violent.

Up a bit late-
Violence is violence, speech and nasty comments are not. I wish people would stick to meaningful definitions instead of "speech is violence" bollocks.
Next stop;
"War is peace" "freedom is slavery"

Lettuce;
My point is stop conflating speech with violence - it isn't

It often occurs to me that our laws and approach to everything is framed - obviously - in terms of how men experience the world.

Non contact sexual offences are not deemed to be "violent" - and even many contact sexual offences. It's about the sort of violence that men do to other men. The sort of violence that men do to women is not considered violence. So, a man following a woman and threatening to rape her - if women had control of the law that would be seen as violent, I think, or at least given more weight than at the moment. Rape is often deemed "non violent" even of children unless there is additional violence of the type men understand - punching and so forth. A man hitting a man on pretty much any part of his body is seen as violence. A man hitting a woman on her breasts or bum is seen as much lesser, even if the result is a lot of bruising. I had a man come up to me and push his fingers into the higes of my jaw to force my mouth open (like giving a cat a tablet) and then he shoved his tongue in my mouth. I was so shocked I didn't really react and the force of his fingers really fucking hurt. Violence? I don't think many people would call that violence.

Our entire understanding of the world and crimes and everything is from a male perspective. No wonder we find it so hard to get justice.

Missy I'd be really grateful for your perspective on the comments I've had from men that I posted a little upthread.

Missymoo100

And yet hate speech is considered violent......funny that isn't it?

up a bit late- the threats are covered by law but don't meet the legal definition of violence.
Lettuce- hate speech, is hate speech it's an offence but it's not violence.

Oh a man wanking at a woman in a situation where there's not many people around. Was what I was thinking of with non contact.

Most women find that extremely threatening but as it's not resulted in physical injury it's seen as minor.

Many crimes against women do not result in lasting physical damage of the type that are deemed important in laws written by men for men.

There was a case recently in the USA (can;t find lik right now) where a defence lawyer said of an admitted child rapist of a very young child that they had "not caused any lasting physical harm" which I think is a good example of this type of approach.

"up a bit late- the threats are covered by law but don't meet the legal definition of violence."

What threats?

Is it legal or not for a man to shout "show us your tits" at a schoolgirl?

I have no idea TBH. I think it should be. What do you think?

Women are not covered by hate speech.

This is a massive and glaring and deliverate omissin.

If you look at protected characteristics for goods and services, employment, sex is in there.

The characteristics for hate speech are the same groups bar women (sex).

This is because if it were made hate speech, the police would never have time to do anything else and everyone knows it. Also because it's so common that most peeople can't see anything wrong with it the way they do eg racist or homophobic abuse.

Yes it is,
If she was caused harassment, alarm or distress- it's a public order offence and should be dealt with as such.