Is it time to repeal the Gender Recognition Act?

[PikesPeaked]

Surely it is time to recognise and accept that sex is genetically fixed and unchangeable?

That girl/woman and boy/man refer to specific sexes at specific states in their development.

That it is not possible to change from one to the other, but that it is possible and permissible to present yourself as either.

That nobody can be obliged to behave in a particular gendered manner. Men and women should, for example, be permitted to wear the uniform of the opposite sex (as long as it does not interfere with them carrying out their jobs).

That insisting that you are a woman with XY chromosomes, or a man with XX chromosomes, is Gender Dysphoria, a mental illness on a par with any other body dysphorias, and deserves compassionate treatment.

That appropriate treatment should be available for GD, but that hormonal or surgical treatment should be forbidden before the age of 18. This would include puberty blocking.

That there should be no more stigma to having GD than to having any other mental illness, such as depression or anorexia. And people with GD should not be discriminated against because of their condition.

That the only time 'gender' can be changed retrospectively should be in the case of proven Intersex conditions, when suitably qualified medical professionals agree that it would be in the individual's best interest.

The gate keeping for GRC has become a mess though. One or two decades ago I imagine most, if not all, referrals for GD were genuine and small in number.

Fast forward to now and you have a lot of online spaces with people coaching others what to say in to Drs in order to meet the criteria of GD so a number of people who now get a GRC, or at least attempt to based on GD, don't actually have GD at all.

Yes it could be argued that trained professionals can spot fakers but in this climate I don't think they would dare suggest it because of the risk to their reputation and career. So further collusion with the notion that just anyone can change sex if they stick to a set script.

But it seems like most trans people don't bother with a GRC hence the push to reduce gatekeeping down to virtually zero. Unfortunately the GRC was the original (well meaning) lie that spawned a load of other lies.

Yes, a hundred times yes! I'm a total bleeding heart lefty but I would vote for the Tories in a heartbeat if they promised to do this.

Yes agree.

@Myunicornfliessideways brilliant post.

Yes we need to protect gender non-conformity.

Start classing rape threats etc as hate speech. No need for more laws.

If everything is transphobic, why aren't we shouting to the roof tops about hate speech to women, and making this a 'thing'.

If everything is transphobic, why aren't we shouting to the roof tops about hate speech to women, and making this a 'thing'.

Because we're not men and, even if we did, no one would listen to us...

How does the GRA help trans people? I don't see how it does.

The GRA does not prevent abuse or discrimination.

There is always much comparison with the gay rights movement but gay people did not ask for certificates to say they were legally straight. That would not have helped people become more accepting.

It took being out and proud to be accepted.

There is nothing wrong with being trans, nothing to be ashamed of or to hide away, no need for secrecy. It is ok not to conform to the gender foisted upon us because of our biology.

The GRA gives gender an importance it shouldn't have. It means that gender is conflated with sex and ensures that people are slotted into boxes to make sure they present according to gender norms. It helps no one.

*Ffs it’s a legal fiction. It doesn’t affect anyone else as long as the distinctions that the law draws between legal gender and bio sex are maintained.&

This is a very transphobic statement by current standards. India Willoughby screaming that he is a "REAL WOMAN" is an example of the thinking that it is not a legal fiction. Very few TRAs would agree it is a legal fiction, which is a big part of the problem. When the GRA was passed, it was commonly understood that they are not really women / men (as is apparent in the exceptions in the Act) but let's all pretend they are to be kind. Now it is practically impossible for any politician to acknowledge this is a legal fiction - they are required to repeat "transwomen are women" and agree they are "real" women.

Now it is practically impossible for any politician to acknowledge this is a legal fiction - they are required to repeat "transwomen are women" and agree they are "real" women

Which is absolutely incredible - it really is like something out of 1984. Everyone forced to say something that everyone knows is demonstrably untrue.

@Thegirlinthefireplace "I agree OP but the battle to prevent self ID is so huge I think repeal of the GRA entirely is beyond reach. It’s much easier to prevent the creation of new rights than to remove existing ones."

How about reinforcing existing protections? How easy or hard is that to do?

@Whwhywhy "But a campaign to abandon gender stereotypes (ie abandon the notion of gender) aimed at inclusivity and young people. Who could object to that."

That is brilliant. Children can all be gender non-conforming, who (as a child or adult) wants to totally conform! And if all children did become gender non-conforming there would be no need for any to seek surgery or hormones.

@NaturalWoman "My daughter is 12. She wears skinny black jeans and DMs. She has her ears pierced and has started experimenting with make up. She can use small power tools and light a fire. She has baby dolls and loves bunnies."

Sounds so like mine too!

"Neither of them conform strictly to the gender stereotypes and I've never been afraid of letting them be who they are. And he is still a man and she is still a girl." So very true!

"Gendered clothing and pink globes and lego have all contributed to this. The idea that there is a correct way for girls and boys to behave is damaging for all of them/us." It's so weird we have gone backwards, in the 70s there was just lego, now there is Lego Heart Lake City. It's so shit. Why have Lego that can be a city when you can have Lego that can be anything! Just like a girl. I think as consumers we should let toy manufacturers know we do not want so called 'gendered-toys!'

I think Lego is a big one in this, but I know there are others.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_Toys_Be_Toys

Lego Friends gets all the stick, but I don’t much like the Ninjago stuff either.

Because of the obvious ‘boy’ marketing.

This is an interesting campaign by the Welsh government about gender

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-42836769

I don;t see the need for it, at all. Apparently it was actually brought in so that transsexual people could marry their same sex partner. As we now have equal marriage, the reason it was created has gone (why on earth didn't they just...legalize same sex marriage instead of this nonsense?!)

I see no reason at all why someone should be 'legally' the opposite sex. None at all.

Can you imagine the transactivists rage if, when this consultation about changing the GRA happens, the decision is to scrap it completely as there is no need for it.

Also sorry for not RTFT before my above post, I see my post above has been stated already a few times.

"But a campaign to abandon gender stereotypes (ie abandon the notion of gender) aimed at inclusivity and young people. Who could object to that."

This could actually start on MN you know, and it will spread wider and wider. Kind of like the let toys be toys campaign? I wonder if MN would get behind this. I see no reason why not. Without 'gender' there will be none of this nonsense and it will go back to 'transsexual' rather than 'transgender' so all these blokes who do not actually have dysphoria would have to go away and think of a new way to attack women, and womens rights.

I think a campaign against gender stereotypes is an excellent idea, though I must warn you that the backlash against Feminism by corporate interests was orchestrated for this very reason.

I would like to see the GRA challenged in the courts.
Can you mandate belief?
Can you codify into law the idea that some people can mind over matter themselves out of material reality and into the opposite sex and must be treated accordingly?
It is like transubstantiation. A belief that no one actually believes.
Will you allow people to drug and mutilate children based on this belief that no one believes?

Mumsnet is supported by advertisers who profit from selling gender stereotypes.

Mumsnet is supported by advertisers who profit from selling gender stereotypes.

Hmm maybe it wouldn't work then. Not on here anyway. We cannot really expect MN to lose advertising revenue to support this. Though I really do think it would make a hell of a lot of kids, and some adults, a lot more comfortable in themselves if more people dropped the rigid stereotype bullshit. I am actually currently harassing talking to my sons school about the way they enforce gender stuff. He is extremely feminine and his teachers apparently try to push boys towards 'boys toys' and will ask him why he 'wamts to be a girl' when he puts on princess dresses when playing. I think this is unaccaptable to be honest, and they seem to conitnue doing it despite my constant asking about why the hell they would do it and (this is selfish I know as other kids will be affected too) telling them that I am not as conerned about other kids, but they should leave my child to be a child as I disagree completely with them forcing gender nonsense onto him.

My son is 3. In bloody nursery and its happening.

Yes.

I don't see it happening though, I feel we're so far down the rabbit hole that damage limitation is as good as it'll get.

There should be a way to do it that the capitalist corporatists would endorse. I just do not know what it would be.

John Lewis are half way there with their "all clothes are for boys and girls" thing.
Not sure they've seen a huge fall in ££?

Unfortunately corporate interest does rely heavily on gendered products... which is another reason why Northern America is so intoxicated with Transgenderism (on top of religious conservatism).

Fucking Toothbrushes even come in boys / girls. Since when do the sexes have different teeth?

He is extremely feminine and his teachers apparently try to push boys towards 'boys toys' and will ask him why he 'wamts to be a girl' when he puts on princess dresses when playing. I think this is unaccaptable to be honest,

It's not just unacceptable TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole, it's outrageous.

Did you see the BBC programme no more girls and boys?

It was about a school, who thought they were fairly progressive.

But, nonetheless, by the age of seven, the only thing that the girls could think of that they did better than the boys was 'look pretty'.

And the only emotion the boys could express was anger.

So they analysed the attitudes and behaviours of the teachers. Who were utterly shocked at how they were, quite subconsciously, reforcing damaging stereotypes.

It's well worth a watch.

I also wonder whether it might be worth taking a copy of it to the person who runs the nursery?

I know it's difficult to mark yourself out, but if all our schools and nurseries followed this 'no gender' approach, our children would be growing up completely differently.

Oh I have already marked myself out. As I say I bring this up regularly.

Will see if i can find that later on on the internet.

I have no doubts that this ridiculously sex stereotyping is part of the reason for the huge rise in transkids.

Sex stereotyping has always been around. But now we tell people they don't have to fit stereotypes, but 'we' don't match our actions to our words. No wonder kids are confused.