Is it time to repeal the Gender Recognition Act?

[PikesPeaked]

Surely it is time to recognise and accept that sex is genetically fixed and unchangeable?

That girl/woman and boy/man refer to specific sexes at specific states in their development.

That it is not possible to change from one to the other, but that it is possible and permissible to present yourself as either.

That nobody can be obliged to behave in a particular gendered manner. Men and women should, for example, be permitted to wear the uniform of the opposite sex (as long as it does not interfere with them carrying out their jobs).

That insisting that you are a woman with XY chromosomes, or a man with XX chromosomes, is Gender Dysphoria, a mental illness on a par with any other body dysphorias, and deserves compassionate treatment.

That appropriate treatment should be available for GD, but that hormonal or surgical treatment should be forbidden before the age of 18. This would include puberty blocking.

That there should be no more stigma to having GD than to having any other mental illness, such as depression or anorexia. And people with GD should not be discriminated against because of their condition.

That the only time 'gender' can be changed retrospectively should be in the case of proven Intersex conditions, when suitably qualified medical professionals agree that it would be in the individual's best interest.

Yes break down the sterotypes first - i still struggle to find nice baby girl clothes that arent flowers, pink, frills, or obs girl and likewise with boys(unless you have the money for scandi clothes) - childrens toys are marketed at particular genders, social media imagery means teens are blasted with awful stereotypes of what a popular attractive girl/boy looks like... and dont get me started on maternity / paternity leave

There is a need for a legal fiction which allows people to change their documents In Order to protect their privacy and dignity.

Genuinely, why?

Gender reassignment is a protected characteristic. People can easily change their name on all documents. But you can't change your sex, so why pretend you can?

I contacted my mp to lobby against the act but got a shitty letter back saying get over it basically.
I'm all for campaigning against though

This should be a request of the trans community also?

What 'trans community'? Is there really such a thing? Do you mean people who are just quietly trying to live their lives, or people who are trying noisily to ride roughshod over others' lives? Or perhaps those kids and teens who are now even more confused, as they are being persuaded that the only way to break gender norms is to transition?

Sadly, I agree that repealing this law is highly unlikely, given the distaste (fear!) around debating transgender issues. A campaign for gender inclusivity, though, would be wonderful.

My gender non conforming girl is perfect the way she is. No need for pronoun change.

Mine too.

At the lowest level, there are 3 toothbrushes in my bathroom. The purple one is mine, the pink one is my son's and the blue one is my daughters.

He had dolls, a toy kitchen, Transformers and Thomas the Tank Engine growing up. He painted his nails and insisted on having his hair in bunches for nursery.

My daughter is 12. She wears skinny black jeans and DMs. She has her ears pierced and has started experimenting with make up. She can use small power tools and light a fire. She has baby dolls and loves bunnies.

Neither of them conform strictly to the gender stereotypes and I've never been afraid of letting them be who they are. And he is still a man and she is still a girl.

But I know several parents who feel very differently to me.

From those who did believe that if their son played with dolls he would be gay and another who was worried they'd done something wrong with their daughter because she was loud and 'boisterous' and not quiet and demure like her sister. She didn't behave as a girl 'should'.

Gendered clothing and pink globes and lego have all contributed to this. The idea that there is a correct way for girls and boys to behave is damaging for all of them/us.

Why what? Why allow people to change their documents to reflect their ‘presenting sex/gender’ or why bother protecting their privacy and dignity?

Well, they're presenting a gender, not a sex.

Are you saying that society is so homophobic that we have to give such folk a legal disguise? Because they can already get a legal disguise by changing their names/driving licences/passports, etc. They can go about in stealth already, without a GRC.

And this is the case, as others have said on this thread, because the GRA was intended to provide a legal remedy for pension and marriage inequality. Not privacy or safety as you seem to think. Since those areas are now equal anyway, what is the need for a GRC?

There is a need for a legal fiction which allows people to change their documents In Order to protect their privacy and dignity.

Why? Surely it is better for people to be able to be open about their lives rather than hiding their past. How is it protecting someone’s dignity to pretend they are something they are not?

Stop discrimination and abuse of trans people of course, make sure that people are safe. To accept people is to embrace them as they are, not to hide their journey.

Agree.

Since being peaked I’ve begun noticing how often ‘gender’ is used where ‘sex’ is the correct term: forms, TV shows, radio, articles, it’s everywhere.

I even crossed out ‘gender’ on my HFEA form for my IVF procedure and wrote ‘sex: female’. FFS, it was talking about my actual gametes, my eggs. I’m pretty sure I’m a woman when I’m unconscious and in stirrups with a room full of people looking up my vagina trying to pull my knackered eggs out. Although maybe I just wrote literal violence, who knows anymore? I digress...

I remember someone commenting some time ago on one of the early trans-discussion threads that if the word to describe biological sex wasn’t the same as the one to describe the act of sex, with all its norty/pearl clutching associations, the endemic and incorrect interchangeability of the concepts might have been avoided. This strikes me as a very valid point.

Why? Surely it is better for people to be able to be open about their lives rather than hiding their past.

Yes, now the legal remedy LangCleg talks about is no longer needed, there’s an argument that retaining the GRC for privacy/dignity is to collude with the idea that there is something that ought to be hidden.

Have you no empathy at all for how excruciatingly embarrassing that might be?

It would only be embarrassing if there is something embarrassing about being trans. I don’t think there is. Think about who is showing their transphobia here.

What is wrong with not presenting as the sector were born as?

Sex obv not sector.

Just think of the times in your life you have to present ID. Can you imagine having to tell prospective employers , mortgage companies, border guards, govt. officials etc that you were not born the sex that you present as? Have you no empathy at all for how excruciatingly embarrassing that might be?

You're so determined to rush about virtue signalling that you haven't even taken the time to look into the most basic facts on this issue.

IT IS ILLEGAL TO ASK TO SEE A GRC.

A GRC has no bearing on what you present as ID, ever. Every time you present your ID, you present your passport or your driving licence or utility bills. These can all be changed to reflect your desired presentation.

THERE IS NO NEED TO HAVE A GRC TO PRESENT OFFICIALLY AS YOUR DESIRED GENDER.

Clear now?

Just think of the times in your life you have to present ID. Can you imagine having to tell prospective employers , mortgage companies, border guards, govt. officials etc that you were not born the sex that you present as? Have you no empathy at all for how excruciatingly embarrassing that might be?

I can appreciate for the small number that seamless pass as the opposite sex this would seem like an unfair imposition.

Realistically though most don't pass so anyone who meets them will clock they are trans regardless of what the documentation says. Hence all the dogma around misgendering and other thought crimes.

I don't think there's should be such a thing as a GRC at all. The word 'gender' is seriously unhelpful and divisive in this context. Your passport is issued for the sex you were observed to be at birth, and will continue to be for the rest of your life. That should not be changed (except for Intersex, if necessary). The same for all other documentation where your sex needs to be recorded.

If you wish to present as the gender that does not match your sex, then perhaps another field could be added to show this, much as we do when registering our dc at school: John Michael Smith, known as Mickey.

Having a mental illness should not be embarrassing. No need to go through legal fictions to conceal it.

Ffs it’s a legal fiction. It doesn’t affect anyone else as long as the distinctions that the law draws between legal gender and bio sex are maintained.

But they are not. Which is the problem.

And it’s really notfor all of you to tell other people how they should feel about their past

Or for you to tell people they should be embarrassed about presenting how they wish.

Furthermore having a GRC is one of the ways to get a passport in a new gender and no it’s not otherwise just a case of ticking a box.

You can get a passport in a new gender by getting a letter from your doctor: www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/251703/Applying_for_a_passport_additional_information.PDF

Yes.

The distinctions are not being maintained whatever the law says.

No one has told anyone how they should feel about their past.