Woman's Place UK meeting in London, 27 Feb

[PlonitbatPlonit]

Just announced on their twitter and Facebook, Woman's Place UK are doing a meeting in London. If it's anything like the Bristol event it will sell out....

www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/a-womans-place-is-making-a-stand-tickets-42865237078

Apologies, that should be dead cops.

Reported myself for my error.

The issue is cross party.

The reason why Labour supporters are coming to the fore, is because, firstly the issue, and secondly Jeremy Corbyn is insisting that all women shortlists are open to men. He's forcing the issue within his own party.

They've got to address what's happening in their party.

Like Jennifer James, the speakers last night thought that they were addressing mostly Labour supporters. It was an erroneous perception.

I don't think they meant to get across the suggestion that this is only affecting Labour supporting women.

But you don't have to be a Labour supporter, to back their campaign.

There are several women's groups all tackling the same problem. And there is, quite naturally, disagreements sometimes about the effectiveness of each other's tactics.

There is absolutely nothing to be done about that.

You can't police other women's strategies. Either practically, or in a way that doesn't fuel counter-productive accusations of infighting.

All these separate groups are making headway. It's just different strands of the same cohort - women.

Bit of a rant, sorry:

I agree with what ArcheryAnnie, vaginafetishist and Mouthandtrousersall said about Miranda, Julia etc.

These people have been at the absolute vanguard of this debate for years now and everywhere they go there is a bunch of misguided children yelling at them and waving sparkly placards in their faces. They are targeted relentlessly on and off line. Humour is a very valid, non-violent response to this shit.

Meanwhile there are reports that one of the protesters committed assault last night. The person identified is someone I recognise from speakers corner last September and who was later leading the chants of 'burn it down' outside the venue. It's all OK though because she was only shouting 'burn it down' about a building full of women (and some men) and not about one of owen jones' books which would obviously have been actual fascism.

The posting of photos and videos is really important because it shows how tiny and misguided this group are. If this was a movement with genuine popular support there would have been rather a lot more than 8 protesters. If this was a movement that genuinely spoke for the people it purports to speak for, there would have been more trans people outside than inside the venue. People need to see these images so they will be less afraid to speak up.

I do understand it can feel intimidating if you're new to these sorts of events. This is an actual real fight though. Women and children are being actually harmed by this agenda right now, not in the future, and if we don't kick up about this now, we will lose the right to kick up in the future. Woman will mean fuck all and we won't even have the language to describe the rights we have lost.

While there were only 8 protesters at this event, there are some very powerful people and groups pushing this dangerous nonsense, including all major political parties. We need everybody joining in at whatever level they feel safe with and in whatever way they can.

If the women getting up off their arses and fighting this TRA nonsense are not to your political liking or are not conducting their resistance in they way you would prefer then get up off your own arse and start something. Happy to form alliances with women across the political spectrum using all sorts of tactics from polite letters to non-violent direct action. Not happy seeing people slagging off the efforts of others when all they've done themselves is attend a meeting which somehow didn't meet their requirements.

Makes sense Datton.

One thing I've learnt from this mess is to listen to a range of points of view though. So hopefully the different groups can connect and cross-pollinate.

Datun sorry

ToryFeminist I'm also a Tory voter who would like to see more right wing involvement. Woman's place does feel very Laboury Copyright on my made up word at the moment, but it's quite new so it needs time to attract more woman like us. It's also up to us, where we can to spread the word to other Tories, right wing woman who may not have heard of WPUK yet. From small acorns and all that.

Excellent post Pencils. Thank you

It would be good if conservatives could start something too.

Woman's place seems inclusive to me as a slightly left of centre floating voter but the women who have worked so hard to make it happen are socialists so it's probably always going to be a bit lefty and that's fine.

WPUK can't be everything to everyone opposed to the TRA agenda. labour, conservative, libdem, greens, religious, feminist, trans, lesbian, parents, ... WPUK can't do all of this alone. We need a coalition of different viewpoints so we can campaign on areas we agree while still allowing for differences.

PencilsInSpace I don't agree. WPUK was set up mainly if not exclusively for Labour party woman, and that's fine. Now the issue of the GRA is spreading cross party lines to all woman. However, I fully accept that at the moment it is still majority Labour woman who attend and speak at the meetings. Again this is fine as right of centre woman are only now really becoming involved too. I'm sure WPUK will find a little space for us all, after all a Lib Dem spoke last night. I'm not remotely upset at the way things are at the moment, it will take time to get right wing woman involved in attending and speaking, and that's ok too. I would rather it took a little longer and was right that rush and make a hash of it. WPUK can be totally politically inclusive, of that I'm sure.

Have just read this thread - phew!
New to Mumsnet.... newish to the whole transgender issue.. fairly new to protest although I have been involved in antifracking for 3 or 4 years now.
I suppose my thoughts on this are that the important issue is the erosion of women's rights if trans ideology is allowed to flourish unchallenged.

What I have learned through my environmental activism is that we can all work together for a common cause regardless of our politics, religion, race or sex.

I would like to thank those who have used this forum to bring this issue out in the open and to challenge the current thinking of all the political parties who seem to discount the impact of proposed changes to the GRA on women. It is so important that we get this out into the mainstream and your voices are being heard.

Janice Turner has done a write up in today's Times - specifically mentioning WEP.

Totally agree with everyone who says that this is a cross party issue. I'm left wing but feel a greater loyalty to right wing women than the Labour party. I want us all to work together.

I'm so grateful to all the women who got this movement started. Also to the transwomen who are finding themselves exiled from the 'T' for speaking out. Thank you.

I think it's a little bit out of order to criticise WPUK that was set up by Labour women, mainly socialists, as being exclusionary of tories at this stage.

They've only had, what 2 or 3 meets? This was the biggest by far with less than 400 attendees. It's only the beginning.

I would recommend Tory women in support, contact WPUK and let them know they should invite a Tory speaker next time so Tory women can be more open about going and spread the word, and they will have support from the right. Which is very much needed.

Patodp I'm very grateful to the women who set up WPUK and am in no way criticising them as exclusionary. It's a new movement. Women will shape it as needed.

Some really good points made here and yes, mustn't forget to be grateful to WPUK for getting us this far.

Well said, Pencils.

These people have been at the absolute vanguard of this debate for years now and everywhere they go there is a bunch of misguided children yelling at them and waving sparkly placards in their faces. They are targeted relentlessly on and off line. Humour is a very valid, non-violent response to this shit.

This spoke to me. I was a bit nervous about walking through the protest - it's a new experience to me, like I bet it was to others, of having women who describe themselves as feminists protesting something I've done. There was a point walking through when I realised I was OK with it (I paused for a moment and said "wake up, sister!" at the woman nearest to me - not my most effective argument, I know, but it felt better than just rushing past), and then when we were gathering on the pavement nearby, in order to accumulate everyone who wanted to go to the pub, it felt quite liberating that we all felt we didn't need to rush away in terror.

And these people don't even know my name yet! As Pencils said, they have been hassling Julia and Miranda, whose names they do know, for a long, long time. It felt pretty liberating to see a photo of them both laughing in front of the protest. It takes the sting away, a bit.

WPUK was set up mainly if not exclusively for Labour party woman

No, not really. It was set up mainly by Labour party women. Important difference.

I am a bit taken aback by some of the criticisms on this thread. I realise many women may not have been to political meetings before - but this is what they are like. Some people are blunt and loud. Some people are hard liners. Some people more ready to compromise. People have different tactical opinions. Some have different opinions about different details of the policy they would like to see result.

WPUK demands have been designed so that they are acceptable to the broadest range of women (and male supporters) possible. And I imagine every woman attending or observing can agree on them and would also agree on three basic principles going forward:

1. the GRA should not be amended to self-ID
2. the EA's single sex exemptions should not be removed
3. the EA's single sex exemptions should be invoked more often

Anybody going to these meetings should expect a range of views as to whether or not to go further than that, a range of views on the best practical ways of achieving the WPUK demands, and a range of personality types making the arguments. It's normal. Your voice isn't being squeezed out: a range of voices and tactics are being expressed at an open meeting. That's how open meetings go. I know it can be a bit odd if you're not used to it but disagreement is nothing to be afraid of or get put off by.

If you come from a non-Labour background and want to see non-Labour speakers included on the panels, I'd have a chat among yourselves and reach out to ask possible speakers to contact WPUK. What about Caroline Farrow, the Conversative Catholic commentator? Which other prominent female commentators from the centre right have spoken up about this? Reach to them, ask if they'd like to get involved.

Anybody going to these meetings should expect a range of views as to whether or not to go further than that, a range of views on the best practical ways of achieving the WPUK demands, and a range of personality types making the arguments. It's normal.

It's more than normal, it's essential. Like I said upthread, one thing that distinguishes us from the TRAs is that we don't need to agree on absolutely everything, and that debate and (friendly, good-faith) dissention among ourselves is not just welcome, it's necessary.

I brought up the slightly exclusive nature of the meeting upthread and what it’s morphed into really isn’t what I meant. This was the first sensitive political meeting I’ve ever attended and it took a lot for me to feel capable of attending. I have huge anxiety (clinical) and often have issues with taking space that I shouldn’t take up, feeling like I don’t belong. I was absolutely bricking it about dealing with the protesters as it’s something I’ve never felt with before.

That the speakers were mainly left wing was not an issue to me, it was the “we are”comments from them. We are socialists, we are trade unionists. That had me feeling that no, “we” aren’t and made me feel that maybe I was the wrong person for this kind of campaign. I do understand what they were saying, and that it certainly wasn’t meant to exclude, but when you have a real lack of confidence it is what you can hear (and then spend time convincing yourself that it’s just the paranoia talking).

I think what I was trying to get across is that some of the comments made me feel that maybe I wasn’t the right person to get involved in this, and we don’t want to be turning anyone off from this fight. That everyone is welcome regardless of their political colours. I’m not sure how this would be done, but I do believe that WPUK intends to be inclusive of anyone and everyone who cares about this issue, and ensuring everyone goes away feeling that they were welcome and are involved is surely important.

SwearyG - I sympathise with the anxiety. Politics can be scary and getting involved in activist spaces can be intimidating, even when you aren't an anxious person. But the answer is to just stand up and say:

"I'm not a socialist and I'm not a trade unionist but I am on board with this campaign and I think we need more people like me, who are not ideological but who think opposing self-ID is the most important thing for women right now."

Because your voice is as important as anyone else's at an open meeting. And the campaign can only take the best direction if everybody speaks and helps to guide it.

Here is Janice Turner's write up in the Times today www.thetimes.co.uk/article/even-a-party-for-women-won-t-take-on-trans-lobby-hncf8ljnn?shareToken=1ba4afd92428db7c019b7318ab96edd6