Woman's Place UK meeting in London, 27 Feb

[PlonitbatPlonit]

Just announced on their twitter and Facebook, Woman's Place UK are doing a meeting in London. If it's anything like the Bristol event it will sell out....

www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/a-womans-place-is-making-a-stand-tickets-42865237078

Thrilled to hear how this went. I'm on holiday so couldn't go.

Also a Libdem woman . Am a newish member and do stuff for the party- but would never post on the party Facebook pages on either this or "sex work" debates. not since one gigantic bizarre pile on about the nordic model

How does one go about joining the militant feminist wing of the Lib Dems?

MacaroonMama

Just thinking about what FloraFox wrote a couple of pages back about Julia Lobg being asked to be quiet while Miranda Yardley was applauded though they said the same thing - I think maybe it is because it is more powerful when those from inside a minority group define themselves.

TBH my read of the room was that a lot of women were uncomfortable with JL's words because they were clearly directed at the TIMs who had just spoken, both of whom called themselves TW said how happy they were to be "accepted" by the women there. While I get that they may simply have been saying "you're not all transphobes, like they say you are" it also felt to me a bit like centering things on themselves. It reminded me a bit of meetings where men speak then women don't want to make them feel uncomfortable. I would have preferred it if MY had stood up after JL and said "I agree with her" rather than making the same points later to great applause.

Im a floating voter - but I float between Labour and LibDem. Voted for Blair first time round then WMD happened and I said never again. Libdems all went well then ConDem happened and I was out again

My local councillor and the county councillors are female LDs and both brilliant, very active, very successful at chipping away until they get whats needed for the community.

MP is a tory woman in a very safe seat, on the right side re GRA and a good constituency MP but has made a lot of shameful voting decisions (re DLA, austerity etc)

Local Labour chap stood against her last June in GE and I was impressed enough to vote for him. Since then....nothing. Lots of photo ops of him at new schools, with children and animals, but nothing of substance. And ignored my email about GRA.

So where do I go now?? My local LDs would love to have me but its a very small community and I know everyone and dont want to make waves. Local CLP is pretty dormant. Local Greens are nice but ineffective and 'niche'.

Can I join the MN party please?!
LibDemWoman well done for speaking up

TerfyMcTerface i'm very jealous that you can even talk to your MP about this.

FloraFox that's such an interesting point Regarding Yardley - why not just say I agree rather than centre it on one's self, I hadn't even considered that as a form of action.

Musing on the dynamics a bit more, out of all the women trying to speak during the comments many were left un-chosen by the panel. At least four round me never got the chance. Yet all the TIMs got to speak.

Contemporary, I can see why this is - it lends the cause credibility if we can show that Trans people are involved in respectful debate and are allowed a voice.

The three male trans people that were there are all old school transexuals who are being ignored in this. None of them believe they are women.
They are all TERFs.

Sorry I should have send, begin ignored by the TRAs, and the Governement/Labour not by us TERFS

The other two could also have spoken up and said they agreed with JL. Instead at the end Steph ? apologised to them from the stage (after MY spoke) and the one I could see was making a martyr face.

I do agree they are being ignored and ostracised by TRAs as women are but they are male and were socialised as male. I don't think it was any more disrespectful for JL to say they are male and we should not use female pronouns than it was for MY to say it.

While I agree it lends credibility to show they are allowed a voice, I think there is a fine balance between doing this and centering them / constraining women from discussing the issues by their presence and expectations.

There is a lot of disagreement (on here and elsewhere) about whether women should use female pronouns or use the term "transwomen" to be polite. A lot of people (me included) think we have been polite and it has been abused. Other people think we should acknowledge TIMs as "transwomen" but not the same as women. I don't think either viewpoint should be constrained or apologised for in a meeting like this and if the TIMs think that is offensive, maybe they are not such good allies after all.

The more I see tweets of photos and video of Dr Long, MY etc basically jeering at the TRAs, the more pissed off I get. It looks childish and exclusionary. I don't think it was necessary at all. I felt there was a cliquiness to the meeting last night. Particularly the Labour members in the gallery leaning down to watch over the rest of us. It felt quite intimidating.

This movement isn't owned by Labour or socialists and it isn't about individuals (whether supporters or opponents). I strongly espouse this cause but I am not sure there's room for me in the activism.

I "followed" the meeting on Twitter and MN and FB seeing photos almost "live". I had a lump in my throat and tears in my eyes, and butterflies in my stomach at the thought that I might be witnessing the birth of a new women's movement.

It did feel amazing.

I'm sad to see from twitter that at least one of the few men there was a fifth columnist. What a shitty way to be a man.

I don't understand how you could listen to Lucy speak and feel anything other than inspired by how strong and calm and clear she is.

It was a great night. Good to meet so many of you.

What, the man retweeted by Roz Kaveney who said that we instigated a black mass by reciting the names of trans martyrs and then Satan appeared in the form of Steph Pike?

Jaimes A Women's Place was started by women on the left, in the Labour Party and from unions, so it's not really surprising that it had a leftish slant, but I don't think it was exclusionary at all. If you aren't on the left and want it to be more inclusive, why don't you offer to volunteer with them?

And I'm fine with Julia and Miranda dealing with the TRAs outside in whatever nonviolent way they want to. One of the advantages of our side is that we are - or should be - OK with disagreements, with doing things in different ways, with being from different political parties, or with reacting to abuse from TRAs in different ways (as with Julia and Miranda making fun of it). It's the TRAs who demand, cult-like, that everyone do everything in lockstep, no dissention or difference allowed. We aren't like that, and I hope we won't ever be.

@vaginafetishist I'm pretty sure that account was a parody but there was a guy called Michael Smith tweeting from the event and saying it was full of old lesbians, or something like that.

There was one evidently tweeting from the meeting - saying 'the mask is off' because of JLs comment that TIMs are men.

It was pointed out that that's not exactly a secret agenda - more a mission statement but I just found it a bit sad amongst all the great voices from last night that a man sitting there was tweeting that shit.

And I get that anyone can go to a public meeting it's just a but underhand and arseholey.

Yeah Michael Smith I think that's it.

Michael 'male privilege' 'I suck donkey dicks' Smith.

FloraFox that's such an interesting point Regarding Yardley - why not just say I agree rather than centre it on one's self, I hadn't even considered that as a form of action.

It was the classic woman speaks and is ignored or dismissed and then man says exactly the same effing thing and is congratulated for being brilliant. My entire work life experience.

I liked the "big reveal" that the meeting included middle-aged lesbians. Oh noes!

Yes it must be a parody but it's pretty amazing Roz didn't notice.

Julia and Miranda effectively laughing at the TRAs and their frankly cult like chanting felt liberating to me. Everyone knows about women being attacked, losing their jobs over this and we all feel that fear when speaking out. Anything that holds this ideology up to ridicule is refreshing for me.

These are scary times for women, particularly lesbians.

Yeah, I don't think Julia really bothers with a mask.

It's Matthew.

But at least I got his middle name right right?

mobile.twitter.com/indigojo_uk/status/968583122546778112?p=v

I refuse to signal submission to male dominance by using female pronouns for males.
We are living in a period where strange men call me by my first name. I am 71 years old and young men are entitle to not only show that degree of familiarity but then have the effing nerve to inform me that I am to address them by their fetish fantasy name. Eff that shit for a game of bollocks.

@FloraFox who pulled the martyr face? Debbie (long gray hair) or Kristina (brown bob)? Not that it matters, I'm just curious

secret it was Kristina. I couldn't see Debbie from where I was. I was raised Catholic so I can spot the martyr face from a country mile.

Roz "terrible poetry" Kaveney doesn't care whether something is true or not, if she can put it on twitter. She's just libelled Helen Lewis and Boodleoops by saying they've signed up to some American right-wing project, and even though it's been pointed out to her that it's a fucking blog roll, and neither Boodleoops not Helen L have anything to do with it, she hasn't taken the accusation down. She's even done a really nasty bit of victim-blaming, telling Boodleoops she ought to have arranged to have her name removed. Boodleoops must get so many absolute shits (including Roz, to be frank) taking her name in vain, that chasing after each instance would be a full-time job.

tl;dr fuck off Roz. (And your poetry is an embarrassment.)

bewilderness you are awesome