Women’s Aid considers employing self-declared transwomen [i.e. men] in women's shelters

[cromeyellow0]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/womens-refuges-may-get-transgender-staff-3txhcr8mb

The review of women’s refuges, which is not dependent on any government reform, was agreed last week by the board of the charity Women’s Aid, a federation that oversees more than 300 shelters.

Mary Mason, the board’s interim co-chairwoman, said: “We have agreed to start a review of our whole transgender policy, including the possibility of employment for self-declared transgender women without a gender recognition certificate.”

Describing it as “an extraordinarily difficult discussion,” Mason said the review, by Women’s Aid’s director of services, Nicki Norman, would take three to four months. Another board member, Sarah Forster, confirmed the move.

Where did the impetus come from? It shows yet another institution "getting ahead of the law", as a Labour MP would phrase it.

We could maybe write them an open letter and try to get it published in the press?

We might have to rebuild refuges with the rule that they are only for 'people previously known as women'. This would capture all the XX vagina people including TIFs but exclude men and TIFs.

I'm only half joking

*exclude men and TIMs

Yet as a society we know this. We know it from all the men who have gone to great lengths to seek out victims under the guise of being pillars of the community. It's appalling how much common sense has seemingly gone out of the window around this one subject.

Exactly. Scout leaders, football coaches, priests, doctors. Why do people think that this would be any different?

People say 'but you wouldn't pretend to be trans if you weren't, just to get access to women'. But the point is that with self id, you don't have to 'pretend to be trans', you can just declare 'I'm a woman' and it is so.

And anyway it's a fucking disgrace to expect women to be fine with being helped after their rape by someone who has a penis and is obviously a man. What, and if they aren't comfortable with it they are 'transphobic'?

Fuck off.

We might have to rebuild refuges with the rule that they are only for 'people previously known as women'. This would capture all the XX vagina people including TIFs but exclude men and TIFs.

They wouldn't let that happen. It would be like a lightning rod for them. Because they are domineering men who care only about themselves.

They don't even want (thing), they just want women not to have it.

They don't even want (thing), they just want women not to have it.

YY^

They don't even want (thing), they just want women not to have it

I think there's 3 types.

There's a small number of narcissistic TIMs looking for validation at any cost to others (NATALT)

There's a large number of old-fashioned misogynists who think women make a lot of fuss about nothing and should get back in their box

And there's an unknown number of sex offenders who want to offend more easily

Ereshkigal An open letter is a marvellous idea.

Maybe someone could start a thread here so we can all add our input to the final letter?

I like the idea of an open letter.

I had a reply to my email basically saying they understand my concerns, they're reviewing internal policies and will talk to survivors are part of process, they do set the policies of organisation that run direct services for survivors and they'll take comments on board. Hmm

I got the same reply
Along the lines of "while the government are reviewing the GRA we and other organisations are taking the opportunity to review our internal policies. We will talk to member organisations and survivors as part of the process...." very stock reply.
At least they are acknowledging our voices.

I finally watched that clip of This Morning where Piers Morgan and India Willoughby argued about whether men should be allowed into refuges, while the woman who has experience and expertise in these matters, Karen Ingala Smith, barely had a chance to say anything. Oh, and India told us how sorry he was for poor old men for being the ones who go round doing the beating and the raping.

I got the same response as above from our local WA.

A year ago this sentence would have reassured me:

"You can rest assured we will safeguard women only spaces and ensure that women that access refuge/safe accommodation are treated with the upmost respect and care."

Now? I'm suspicious that "women only spaces" means spaces that are open to women and men.

Maybe I am missing something but WA is predominantly for women who have been in an abusive relationship with their male husbands or male partners. The people who run WA are female and to access the accommodation it is female only (young male children are the exception)

How does this fit in with a man who says he has been abused by his male or female partner. Surely he would go to a man's refuge not a woman's and if he was in a relationship with a man wouldn't this make him homosexual and not transsexual.

If he has a penis and wears a dress that would make him a transvestite.

How does this fit in with a man who says he has been abused by his male or female partner. Surely he would go to a man's refuge not a woman's and if he was in a relationship with a man wouldn't this make him homosexual and not transsexual.

According to refuge.org.uk there are outreach and advocacy services aimed at men but it makes no mention of actual refuges. I suspect there isn't a need great enough (number wise) to be able to run them and I've never once heard or seen any man campaign to get some started.

The need for Women's refuges is because of the physical power disparity in heterosexual relationships but also the economic disparity plays a big part too. It's easier for most men to leave a relationship financially.

I don't know much about gay male domestic violence but if I had to guess I would say it's probably a bigger issue than is actually talked openly about. However the big LGBT orgs do have the funds to put this front and centre if they really wanted to. It's not okay to just co-opt women's services.

Again in reality I imagine most gay men in this situation have money that enables them to leave a little easier and are unlikely to have dependant children. This may change a bit in future years now we have marriage equality and more gay couples have families.

Trans Aware provides trans-only accommodation in Stockton-on-Tees. Interesting that segregated spaces are acceptable for transpeople but not for women.

"Our House has a project officer from Trans Aware that lives on site for added security." It would be interesting to see the job advertisement. Could someone who identified as trans on the day be eligible, or would they need a lengthy history of being trans-identified?

transaware.org.uk/our%20house.html

Does Broken Rainbow (a DV service for LGBT) still exist?

Maybe they could provide helpful stats on was is missing from their service provision and what groups are most in need.

I received the same stock reply also. My email went into some detail about my abusive ex, what he did and how after I left him I couldn't even look my own father and brother in law in the eye because I literally couldn't cope being around men. I told them if a man had been the one to welcome me to that refuge I'd have walked away - and considering I was pregnant, and had a 3 year old daughter with me I dread to think where I would have gone. It took alot to write to them, it's been 7 years and day to day I try not to think about that time. It feels like no-one even read my email, it was just a standard response. It feels like another slap in the face to be honest.

That’s appalling Sergio. And I’m so sorry to hear about your experiences.

When I first read about this, I must admit, I cried a little.

I’m so upset. I had to remove myself from reading this thread. It’s been a few days and I’m less murderous but I’m so dissapointed.

I feel so sad about it.

Woman’s aid, if you’re reading this, we need you. Please don’t do this to us.

So sorry if this has already been posted, but just wanted to draw attention to Julia Hartley Brewer's interview with IW & KIS: soundcloud.com/mossmiss-1/karen-ingala-smith-with-india-willoughby-on-talk-radio-with-julia-hartley-brewer

Brilliant call from a listener at the end - convinced she must be a MNer (bet JHB is too)!

How does this fit in with a man who says he has been abused by his male or female partner. Surely he would go to a man's refuge not a woman's and if he was in a relationship with a man wouldn't this make him homosexual and not transsexual.

Broken statistics by MRA and media are use to say that domestic abuse is the same level between men and women to create a straw man about refuges getting preferential government support, and now can be used in 'don't feminists want equality' type rubbish.

Don't get me wrong there should be support for men but there are a shit load of footballers, business men etc who could dig up some pocket change.

Anyone who is wondering what to do about this entire issue, here it is.

A Woman's Place UK has organised a London meeting. The more people who go, the more it will be covered in the press.

27th of February, 7pm. £5.98.

Venue to be announced.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3160410-Womans-Place-UK-meeting-in-London-27-Feb