Women’s Aid considers employing self-declared transwomen [i.e. men] in women's shelters

[cromeyellow0]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/womens-refuges-may-get-transgender-staff-3txhcr8mb

The review of women’s refuges, which is not dependent on any government reform, was agreed last week by the board of the charity Women’s Aid, a federation that oversees more than 300 shelters.

Mary Mason, the board’s interim co-chairwoman, said: “We have agreed to start a review of our whole transgender policy, including the possibility of employment for self-declared transgender women without a gender recognition certificate.”

Describing it as “an extraordinarily difficult discussion,” Mason said the review, by Women’s Aid’s director of services, Nicki Norman, would take three to four months. Another board member, Sarah Forster, confirmed the move.

Where did the impetus come from? It shows yet another institution "getting ahead of the law", as a Labour MP would phrase it.

Popchyk

Have you emailed them what you have just predicted?

if the email exchanges ongoing, with what sounds like a sensible person, can you cite examples and send them? The man who tied up the rape refuge in Canada for 12 years, for instance.

And alert them to autogynephilia.

I think people are very unwilling to even consider that transwomen may be autogynephiles. I'm reluctant to mention it because I predict they'll just have the knee-jerk 'TERF propaganda' reaction and switch off.
I had a long conversation with my friend recently (100% agrees that transwomen are women and should have a shot at shortlists, be allowed in refuges etc) and it was actually a very calm and good debate - but when I cautiously broached the subject of AGN, they just sort of smiled thinly and we just moved on without addressing that point. I could practically see the 'oh god This Is Transphobia 2K18' thought bubble above their head.
The significant number of male Tinder users in their 20s and 30s who set their preferences to 'women' and refer to themselves as 'transgirls' in the bio doesn't seem to ring any alarm bells for many either, that I know of.
I'd be wary of pushing the point before people show themselves a bit open-minded to what you're saying.

Maybe would help to quote the 41% of UK transwomen prisoners in 2017 sex offences stat (but then I feel like I'd have to debunk that Independent article at the same time in case they then go to check the figures, fall on the article and then dismiss the stat without pursuing further) before talking about AGN...makes it more approachable via association.

Datun,

Yes, I have emailed her those concerns, and I think they were taken seriously. She said I made a good point about male sex offenders changing their names and presenting as women with no criminal history. I honestly don't think she'd personally considered the necessity of DBS checks (and if you can self-ID as a woman and change your name simply by filling in a form, then I'd wonder how thorough those DBS checks would be anyway).

Lots of refuges have children and this is basic safeguarding.

I think one of the issues that we have is that people who work in things like domestic violence refuges tend to be focused on that and perhaps not so much aware of the trans movement. I don't think the person that I emailed has had any reason to be aware of it.

That's the problem, I think. They can't see it coming at all. And once self-ID transwomen are let into the tent, there will be no getting them out again.

It's incredibly frustrating. And I think you're right. They will be concentrating on damaged women, rather than dodgy men who claim they're women.

velourvoyageur

I agree that AGP is one of those topics that feels like a bridge too far. Nonetheless, it is vital to the issue.

It's worth noting that Stonewall includes cross dressing fetishists under the banner of transgender.

The existence of the fetish doesn't get more authenticated than that.

It's as though people simply don't acknowledge the existence of transvestism. Why not? It's been around forever.

Miranda Yardley has written a blog called where have all the transvestites gone?

Because we all know where. They are now transwomen.

It really takes a wilful blindness not to acknowledge that a man who enjoys cross dressing would immediately seek the legitimacy of transgenderism.

I don't think I'm more cynical than the next person, I have no reason to be, although this issue has certainly fuelled my cynicism.

But seriously, sex offences, rapes, the MeToo campaign, the Jimmy Savile scandal, Operation Yewtree.

Male predators aren't exactly thin on the ground.

As soon as a man insists on access to women, I can't understand how most people don't immediately think, hang on.

Absolutely, Datun. I agree it's something that must be brought up. But in this climate it's a hard tightrope to walk - either you compromise too much, or you (inadvertently or not) push the wrong button that signals the end of the conversation.

velourvoyageur

Believe me, I get it.

I've noticed even in the last few months, that AGP is worming its way out of the woodwork.

All sorts of things are contributing to it. The assertion by TRAs that you don't need gender dysphoria to be trans. That's a bit of a strange claim to make.

It's pretty hard to make, I don't have gender dysphoria, but I really like wearing women's clothes, not sound dodgy. Even if you pepper it with 'authentic identity' and 'just want to be myself'.

Plus the complacency of, having assumed the protective mantle of transgender person, you can start talking about how sexy is to buy women's clothes. ( several Guardian articles).

So, although it has been something that has felt far too taboo to mention, and still is in a lot of places, I do believe that's changing.

I don't think I'm more cynical than the next person, I have no reason to be, although this issue has certainly fuelled my cynicism.

Ah yes, this old chestnut. That we have to preemptively defend ourselves against dismissal on the grounds of being 'unreasonably cynical', as if on transition you become a blank slate & the socialisation which leads to others within your demographic committing the vast majority of sexual crimes is wiped out. Sigh!
During a discussion with a friend last month, they basically explained that I wasn't being objective on the issue due to a certain past experience, the implication being that if I hadn't gone through it, I'd be fine with male bodies in female spaces. Not a massive step from that to branding as hysterical people who have a direct insight into men treating women badly and as a result sidelining them.

I don't think you should have to include that caveat but sadly, while people don't understand that the socialisation of male children and adults is inextricable from the values we assign to sexual difference, I guess people will expect it at some point in the discussion. Debating this issue becomes a game, where one party has weighted dice and the other doesn't - those seen as 'TERFs' are being given so little political power, we have to jump through all these discursive hoops just to buy space in which we're listened to (and even then it's a minefield). Almost a bit like the beauty myth - we think in jumping through these hoops we'll get to be considered on the same level eventually, but of course having to be on the defensive just reinforces the fact that we do not approach the issue from equal standpoints, so are buggered from the start and deluded to boot. And at the same time, simply saying 'I am not unreasonable, I am not transphobic' is undermining in acknowledging that these things are linked to us (even if in order to then dispell the link).

So, although it has been something that has felt far too taboo to mention, and still is in a lot of places, I do believe that's changing.

Heartening to hear you say this :) guess we have to get over the hump of it being in the open first.

velourvoyageur

Lol. That made me laugh.

We're on the back foot, hopping on the back burner, on the defensive, climbing up the slippery ladder!

Still, you can't fault our multitasking.

It used to be that job postings from the local WA indicated 'female only' but today they have all benn changed to 'women only'. I think they have already made their decision.